CNC Wire Bender/Former DIY

[tljenterprises]

First Post... Ever on this forum. And the main reason that I came to this forum in the first place.

I manufacture a product (nameless for now because I am working on the patent stuff)

And I need to be able to 2D bend fairly complicated closed polygon patterns out of 1/8 - 3/16 mild steel wire.

I of course have looked into a commercial wire bending machine and with price tags in the $90K range, well they are just way more than I can afford and truly way more than I need.

At this time my fabricator actually bends each wire by hand, using a paper pattern and some different diameter cylinders welded to a plate to make each wire. This works OK.. but it is slow and not consistent enough.

Does anyone know of a "Torchmate"-like company that makes a hobbyiest wire form machine. OR, is anyone interested in building one. OR, does anyone have any resources that may help me (a non-machinist, non-programmer, non-electronics wizard) to understand and build on of my own.

(FYI - I am NOT non-mechanical. I just have never been into CNC controls and such things. I can grasp the concept of how electronics would work to control a motor and such, but I have never done it.)

SO... there it is. Wutcha think?

Thanks
Lee
TLJ Enterprises
541.223.5359

[Geof]

I think you should move to an intermediate step between paper patterns with round cylinders and full CNC.

I have built several small bending fixtures for wire and thin strip and nearly always started with the paper pattern approach. Once you have done a few bends this way you get to see that if you have several strategically placed removable stops around the bender it becomes possible to insert the wire up to stop 1, do the first bend until the end is adjacent to stop 2, then advance the end of the bent wire up to stop 3 and bend until it is adjacent to stop 4, etc, etc.

Essentially what you do is map out the position of the end of the wire as it progresses through the bending sequence and have stops at each point. The stops have to be removable to avoid interference from stops that are not needed for a particular bend.

[tljenterprises]

We have been down this road to some extent.

There are a couple of issues.

1. Since I will have on the order of 100 different patterns, I run into a storage issue. I have even considered buying a used layout table (2" thick plate with fixture holes) and then having layout patterns for repeatability. But when producing ones and twos this is a lot of layout time for a very simple piece.

2. I need to do bends that vary from 1"R to as much as perhaps 36" or even more. And many of these bends are variable radius (spline) curves that are very difficult to duplicate.

I would love to stay lowtek, but I don't see how I am going to be able to.

Thanks for the thoughts.

I wish I could be more specific about my product. I think it would make understanding my production issues a little easier. After I get this patent stuff outta the way I will be freer with my information.

Thanks

***EDIT*** Don't get me wrong man. I am already thinking about your idea. And there is obviously validity to your method. I just still in shock that no one has produced a cost effective wire bender in the DIY market. So AGAIN.. Thanks for the input!

[Geof]

When you are doing tens or hundreds of thousand $90k is cost effective. When you are down in the few thousand or less you have to figure out low tech solutions.

[Al_The_Man]

Originally Posted by tljenterprises I just still in shock that no one has produced a cost effective wire bender in the DIY market. So AGAIN.. Thanks for the input!

Can you at least point to a commercial machine that does what you want, just to get a feel of the methods used out there?
Al.

[tljenterprises]

YouTube - Mang 2-D CNC Machine

YouTube - Mang 2-D CNC Machine

I would like to build a machine that can do the variable radius bends that are demonstrated when making the treble cleft.

What I love about this machine is the simplicity. One of the reasons these machines are so expensive is that they are VERY VERY exact. They need to me. I don't need to be that exact. If my tolerances are 1/16th inch. I am really really happy.

I have already sketched a bunch of the mechanism and such. I just don't know how to make the motors do what I need them to do. And especially I don't know how to get the software to look at an AutoCAD drawing and make the part that it sees.

I know all this seems way out there. But if hobbyists can make 3D CNC Routers and such, then they can design this. And hear me when I say that a $7K 2D wire bender would smoke the market and make the big boys rethink their overinflated view of their product.

I will reiterate... I am interested in having someone build me one. Or in learning what I have to learn to build one myself. But understand that the learning curve for me will be HUGE.

Thanks for taking the time to show an interest.

[Al_The_Man]

Very interesting, especially as I recently retrofitted a rolling machine but the method, although effective was rather crude.
I noticed there appeared to be a former-head change when moving from sharp angles to continuous curves? Although combined bends and curves were done with the first head also.
I will have to give it some thought. I am not doing anything this weekend
( It could maybe re-vitalize my retirement fund, since the market crash.
Al.

[tljenterprises]

Back to the Top...

I don't know if this board is like others in that things on the second page don't always get looked at... So I am pushing this back to the top.

Does anyone have any additional input.

Thanks in advance.

Lee

[gridley51]

As someone says,$90K is not a lot of money to cnc wire forming.Have a look for La Tour (might be one word) for the Rolls Royce of formers or Whitelegg for true production machines.
Whiteleggs pop up quite often on the used market for not a lot of money.

[tljenterprises]

Your statement about 90K for a CNC wire bender could just have easily been said about CNC plasma cutters or CNC routers just a few years ago. But then some technerdgineer thought they could do it cheaper and viola now we have companies like Torchmate in the market offering affordable professional machines at a fraction of the price to the hobbyist and professional alike.

I think that it's time for this overpriced production tool to see the light.

[gfc62]

Great idea, I'll be watching your thread. Sorry I don't have any bright ideas for you. I assume you've already messaged the starters of these other threads...

http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27499 (doanwannapickle)

and (less on target)

http://cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68163 (supahonkey)

[One of Many]

Originally Posted by gridley51 As someone says,$90K is not a lot of money to cnc wire forming.Have a look for La Tour (might be one word) for the Rolls Royce of formers or Whitelegg for true production machines. Whiteleggs pop up quite often on the used market for not a lot of money.

I've heard of a few of these Whitelegg machines go for $10k and under at auction. Four slide machines are even cheaper.

We have a whitelegg 2D bender. Replacement parts as consumables are very expensive. Between cutters, dies and butt welding electrodes, expect about a grand a set'.

These do not take CAD drawings and convert it to a bend file. It is all input by hand. Exact is very subjective from one lot of wire to the next. The software does allow for bend adjustments as a group as in compensate all bends +/- x.xx degrees, but much of this is dependant on how straight the wire is after the straightening rollers, before it enters the bending section.

The cast, helix and drawn hardness all become a noticeable variable throughout a of stand of wire and from lot to lot. When spec'ing the wire besides gage tolerances, you really need to have yield, tensile and elongation all within a certain envelope, or you'll fight consistency forever. We only run .120 stainless and it is all over the map. Even the amount of coating left on the material can change the run ability. There are a set feedback wheels the wire travels between after the feed rollers, that run an encoder to track wire position and velocity. Slip and gunk really can mess with the length repeatability.

Then there always seems to be a bend or deviation/variable you just cannot compensate for. Especially when trying to close a smaller loop for welding and such. Mainly because the material must wrap around over the feed duct, which turns the material for the next bend, skewing the alignment before it shears off. The last leg or two are constantly tweaked off in an odd direction. Not as much of an issue with larger pieces.

Making your own CNC bender might be like reinventing the wheel. Primarily due to the amount of custom software to user interface; between feeds, speeds relative to angular/radius tabulation, ratios and algorithms. Making the servo driven machine seems straight forward. Just getting it to run decent software like a production machine is the bigger challenge. Bends wouldn't be so tough, but arcs and spirals and splines? Good luck!

DC