Accuram CNC mini mill...I see no feedback here. Anyone heard about them?

[cwhatc]

I saw the best looking cnc minimill conversion on accuram.com. Pretty impressive looking machine. Looks like a piece of "German engineering". Solid and strong. I saw they have a cnc 9x20 lathe conversion too, and they have the cnc minilathe under construction. Website looks good. Does anybody knows any more about these machines or the company?

[ESjaavik]

Did not see "Made in Germany" anywhere.
On the contrary, it says "Specifications, while deemed accurate, are not guaranteed".

So if you buy one and get one that would be a reject when sold by a reputable company, they can just say "bad luck, try again".

No, I don't know the company. I just go by what they write on their own webpage.

[nervis1]

I'm looking at their prices...9X20 standard HF lathe with a 2 axis system, 6k, 2 axis retrofit 2k and does not include controller or servo motors?

Prices are a bit steep for what you are getting.

Both of those machines are standard asian import items.

[cwhatc]

First: I know these machines well. My buddy have them in his garage (manual only). Chinese and pretty good for what they charge for it. I referred to the retrofit when I said "German Engineering". I have been following up retrofit designs for the mini mill and they look very much "high school graduate engineering" compared to this one.
Second: - The lathe. Dude! I just read the lathe page. It is a complete package ready to work out of the box. Controller and servos.
Dudes! - please be helpful instead of negative! This suppose to be a builders website. You two sounds like the opposite.

[RotarySMP]

I would agree that the motor installation looks nice, but they are asking $6000 for a modified $750 machine. For that sort of money it should be perfect and stand any critique. All the accesories listed are part of teh $750 Grizzly package.

For my taste, I don't undserstand leaving the compound, apron , half norton gearbox and carriage leadscrew etc in place. I guess many first time buyers of CNC find it hard to break away from manual use. The range of spindle speeds implies that haven't gone to the trouble to replace the stock set up for a 3 phase motor and VFD.

Is the aluminium coevr which covers half of the t-slot removable?

It looks nicely done, and with ball screws and servo's should deliver. Whether the work they have done on a $750 grizzly is worth $5250 depends ony how badly you need it. The lack of a spindle drive retrofit is a bit weak.

Another way to look at it:
Lathe $750
Two gecko G320's $250
Two motors $500
Bits and peices, mounts, brackets, cables, $500

Leaves you $4000 for the labour.

At least in Europe, $6000 will give you a wide range of second hand CNC lathes to choose from that aren't based on a cheap chinese hobby machine.

[nervis1]

Dude! Everything on that site is overpriced, Rotary was good enough to give you price breakdown. He's right on. Dude.

[ESjaavik]

First you wrote

Originally Posted by cwhatc Does anybody knows any more about these machines or the company?

And then:

Originally Posted by cwhatc First: I know these machines well.

Does it smell fish here? I wonder why you asked then.

What I wrote was because I thought you were seeking advice. I don't know how it works in USA, but here you can bring the goods back to the shop and demand your money back if it does not live up to the specifications. No matter if the website says otherwise. If you're a prospective buyer, sit back and think it over and you may agree.

Yes, the retrofit looks good. But I would rather have a machine where it may not look very nice but works as specified, that makes a better product in my eyes.

Again: It may be a very good product, but then why do they not back up their specs with a guarantee?

[sendkeys]

Originally Posted by cwhatc please be helpful instead of negative.

i like the fact people are negative. 99% of the time on other forums this is edited out. Makes it very hard to buy somthing good. I hate finding bug/problem right after i buy something because of censorship on the companies website



but to reply to the main question.

like everyone else said. it's a nice looking machine should be great but price is to high. but sometimes this doesnt matter as long as you have work for it to do.

[RotarySMP]

To be fair, we know nothing about the ethics or quality. What we can see appears to be a well designed axis drive system. We can also see a high price for that work, and an unusual decision as to what parts to leave on a CNC lathe, and it is missing a VFD spindle drive and an enclosure.

The designer of that conversion wants to pay his mortgage and feed his kids. To do this he needs to make 50-100K/year profit. Although I wouldn't pay that much, I do know how much work goes into converting a chinese lathe.

At that price point, it is a choice between a top quality used CNC and the risk that entails, or a conversion like this. If his service and support are good, I can see a certain customer base for this. By definition those people won't be hanging out in do-it-yourself sites.

From the comments, it looks like CWhatC is trolling. Please come clean, are you Accuram.com?

[cwhatc]

This is getting really entertaining. Thank you all.
I am looking to get me a little lathe and a mill (cnc). "I know these machines" in their manual form. I remember a few years ago when my friend's father bought the machines they had to take them apart clean them and deburr them and adjust them and who knows. I remember he saved the amount of dirt and metal shaving and sent it back to wherever he bought these machines. Besides these things he is still very happy with his Chinese machines. High prices? - Yes. I saw Bobcadcam's 3 axis Barracuda for $14.000. Too big for me and that is pricy! They got bashed out here I read their forums a while ago. Also saw Smithy cnc for $13.000, - scary! I was looking at Prazi cnc $12.000 for the lathe and another $12.000 for the mill. - brrrrrrrr. German? So what. I still would save $12.000 and I can buy the rest of the machine tools for that.
Anyway. I really don't think these people come here to this site so maybe I should come clean - Zorro? Also if I get serious about buying their machines I will request a demo, in person. Final thought: I think they have a reason for the prices and the features as well. Show me better machines for the same price, same caliper, (new). I would like to look at them as well. Thank You!

[ESjaavik]

@cwhatc: You seem to admire German machines. I cannot blame you there, I do too.

You want us to show you a better machine. Here is a link to one :http://www.wabeco-remscheid.de/

I mention it because a friend has a CC-F 1210E. I have briefly looked at the machine and seen it working. It is a nice machine, and well done in the CNC ballscrew version. I was surprized with the low speed torque of this machine despite it having no gearbox, only the electronic speed control. My friend is satisfied with it. The manual version can be criticized for the feedscrew not being very well made. This machine is not re-made in Germany from asian origin, but a German product. There is a presentation of the production facilities on their site. The prices on their web site is with software, but not including the PC. I don't like their software, but my friend found it easy to start using. I think he is more ready for a better SW now after having used it for a while.

And each machine comes with a Prüfprotokoll (test certificate), plus a 3-week "I don't like it and want my money back" guarantee (in Germany).

Maybe this page http://desktopcnc.com/wabeco.htm can lead you to their USA rep.

Their D4000 and D6000 lathes looks very nice. Well built and rigid. I really had a hard time keeping my credit card cool when looking it over at an exhibition! It has that smooth high quality feeling. The smaller ones looks only well built, not very rigid. They did not trigger my must-have-feel. After looking at them I looked at Sieg, and I think I will say nothing more about that.

Here is another one: http://www.golmatic.de/index.html
I have only briefly looked at it. And I think you pay a lot for the flexibility. But if it (MD-24) saves you from buying a CNC mill plus a CNC lathe it may actually come out cheap in the end. It too has that quality feel, and comes with a test protocol.

[cwhatc]

ESjaavik , wabeco is $12.000 that is $5.000 extra, or $10.000 for the lathe and mill. I like them too! They must be the best but for a lot more!
RotarySMP , You have no idea of estimating the price to build a cnc mill. No offense but I think you are off. I just checked out gecko. Their incomplete 3 axis cnc retrofit kit is $3225. Here is what they say:
Kit includes all components to convert the mill to CNC and run back to the control box. The control box (most folks use an old PC case), connection to the computer, and any other additional accessories are your responsibility. If you’re just looking for the basic additional features, and connection to the computer you can do it for about $150 or so. XY axis servo driven, Z axis stepper driven.

Maxnc four axis closed loop servo control system is $1800 including the cnc rotary table and the software. So far the best price I have found. (Accuram's choice as well) The more I research the more I like them. I think once a "cheap Chinese hobby machine" is redesigned, reworked fitted with quality hardware and tested, is only Chinese iron but not a Chinese machine anymore. I think it was never a Chinese design anyway.
My research and comparison.
Take Geckos $3225. Add a mini mill $550. Add software $300. Add a rotary table $500. Add a fourth axis Gecko drive $110. Add the $150 what they call for. Now I still have to cut the ball screws and install the system. How much was that so far? $4835 plus all the shipping call it $5000 for parts. A big bucket of parts. At Accuram they promise a ready to go machine out of the box for $2000 more. Cleaned and inspected and there is more on their web. O yeah they are not $6K. Read carefully. They have stopped making stuff with acme screws. (good idea).
Well, someday I will call them. So far I have fear by not knowing the company. How are they going to sell machines to people like me?