C3 lathe, X2 mill, Safety glasses, CNC stepper motors and Part clamping

[yngndrw]

Hi,

Okay a few different subjects for my questions as seen in the subject.

I'll summarize each question in bold.

Firstly I'm looking at getting a mill and lathe. The two models that I was looking at getting were:
http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalo...-C3-Mini-Lathe The C3 lathe.
http://www.axminster.co.uk/product-A...ill-568039.htm The X2 mill.

They are about the right size for me and I've selected them based off previous advice and people's reviews. However I'm more wondering what make / version to get.

For the C3 lathe that I've listed (I was looking at getting the metric one without DROs), the ways are not hardened - Will this be a problem ? ACR have told me in an email that they have not had any problem with non-hardened ways but I thought I'd ask here for advice.

So in summary, first question is which version of the mill and lathe should I get ? (I'm in the UK, hence I want metric please.)

Second thing is safety glasses.

I hate this type: http://www.bellbrush.com/images/gog001.jpg so if I can get away from them, I'd love to.

I'm looking for glasses for milling, turning and brazing. (Just a mapp flame, so no super-bright flame here.) Also I don't require glasses, which should make life easier. So what kind of safety glasses would you suggest ?

Thirdly, at some point in the future I would like to have both lathe and mill setup for CNC.
What stepper motor ratings would be suggested for the mill and lathe listed ? I was also going to add a motor to the tailstock to do automated drilling.
Also related - What kind of sensor is needed on the spindle of the lathe to enable threading and how is this setup with Mach ? Is there a guide for this ?
So What stepper motor ratings are suggested for both the mill and lathe ?

Finally a specific part that I want to be able to turn and then mill.

Attached is a very bad drawing of the part with some sizes. The part will be made out of copper. There is a series of turned steps and a couple of holes, one of which is off-center.
I would do the off-center hole on the mill, while doing the steps on the lathe.

However, I don't know how I'd clamp the part.

For added complications, the through hole of the C3 lathe is only 20mm, which is half the size of the part so the bar stock would need to be cut down before it was put into the lathe. I understand that the part would need to be turned around at the end to finish the last face of it, but after the main steps have been turned how would the part be clamped ? Would it be alright being clamped on the largest diameter 1/8" step ?

Then how would it be clamped in the mill to drill the off-center hole ? If you were to use a vice, you would be clamping on two slithers of 1/8" high metal.

So how would you safely machine this part, including clamping methods ?

Thank you very much for any help,
-Andrew.

[chalky]

You might also want to consider the Real Bull ( RB ) minilathes as well as the Seig versions. The RB machines are available from Amadeal ( cheapest ), Chester, and Warco. The RB machines have more powerful motors, much more reliable motor speed controllers, oil channels and push button oilers, heat treated ways ( not fully hardened ), and have a generally more robust feel to them. All of the Real Bull vendors carry complete sets of spares for their machines but Arc only carry selected spares for their Sieg machines. The downside to the RB machines is that its not so easy to mount alternative chucks. I have bought machines from both Arc and Amadeal and can thouroughly recommend both vendors.

[chalky]

Forgot you were looking for an X2 size milling machine as well. The Weiss or Optimum WMD16LV is an alternative sold by Amadeal ( cheapest ), Chester, and Warco. They badge engineer the mills with their own model numbers but all have 16LV in there somewhere. The Weiss/Optimum is a much better machine ( bigger table, scraped ways, proper z-axis lead screw, etc ) than the X2 and only a little more expensive. Spares availability is good too. The downside is that the number of add on kits is much smaller for the Weiss/Optimum machines ( no belt drive kits for example ).

[yngndrw]

Thanks for your replies.

I've just looked on Amadeal's site and found the lathe (http://www.amadeal.co.uk/cj18.htm) but can't see any mention about the oil system. Am I looking at the right model ? I will have a look into these more but from the specs they seem better than the C3 for about the same price.

Only things about that lathe are:
1) Can the Cam-lock tailstock from the C3 be used on the CJ18 ?
2) How is the mount for the chuck different ? Can chucks from the C2/C3 be made to fit it ?
3) Amadeal lists the size as 200/300/350mm, is this lathe a 7x14 (350mm) or is there an option when buying ? (And if it's an option, do you know if they are the same price ?)
4) Is is supplied as metric ?

Regarding the mill: I cannot find that mill on Amadeal, do you meant he XJ12 ? (http://www.amadeal.co.uk/xj12.htm)

I'll have a look into the mill also, although the mill will come later on - Some time in august when I get some more money.


Oh yes, a question I forgot to ask.
I'm going to build a workbench at a nice height for both the mill and the lathe - Only I'm not a machinist so I don't know what "a nice height" is.

Can anyone suggest what height is optimal for a lathe (Height of the centerline) and for a mill (Height of the table ?) from the floor ?

Cheers.

[Guldberg]

I bought a C3 from arceurotrade. Its a great machine, if you only want to use it manually i would add a glass scale DRO. You may also consider adding a bigger chuck while you are at it, 125mm i.e.

I converted it to CNC, have a look at Sieg C3 mini lathe - My shot at a CNC conversion

[chalky]

I've sent you a PM telling you how to find the lathe and milling machine I mentioned, you can just phone up Amadeal and order direct. They tend to mention only the obvious specs of their machines, all of the rest you have to get from the manufacturers website/forums/bitter experience. As regards benches I've got the metal ones with thick wooden tops that Axminster sell - ideal for the minilathe and minimill. Not exactly cheap but well worth the money. If you want to make your own you can get the dimensions from the Axminster website.

[yngndrw]

Guldberg: Thanks, I'll have a look through your thread now. Shame there aren't any pictures in the first post though.

chalky: Thanks for your help, I'm looking at them now.
I'd like to build my own bench becuase then I can build it into the wall any use more of the space I have. I'm a student who's living at home so I have to work with the space I've been given. (A 86" x 86" box room, unfortunatly we don't have a garage so I'll have to sort out ventalation and the like.) I'll look up them sizes though cheers.

[Guldberg]

I think it was these

[yngndrw]

Ah I see - I wanted to see the paper bellows, thanks for posting them.

[yngndrw]

So can anybody suggest what size of stepper motors would be required for these sizes of machines ?

Also any idea for the safety glasses ?

Finally, how would the part I mentioned in the first post be machined / clamped ?

Cheers.

[Guldberg]

I used 200oz/in, that was plenty of power, the spindle motor would stall before the steppers.

How precise would the part need to be? I would turn the "rib" end first and drill the hole. Then turn it over and use some small pieces of brass or similar to protect it from the jaws. Turn the flange in the first setup, this way you only have to face it in the second setup and it wont matter if it runs true

[Jaime128]

Just make sure they go around the side of your eyes too, for when you tilt your head, just try not to do this if you can help it. Specially around metal chips and the tables without cleaning it first, just in case you really have to. There are others that go around the side of your head and look more like regular sun glasses, I just didn't thing they had enough to cover my eyes though. I think the first one will be the one before you go to the goggles if you really want to cover all of your eyes, but just try to stay calm at all times when working on a lathe or any machinery and take the proper precautions and you should be fine. Since your work space is very small, I would also suggest a wet/dry small shop vac to keep the area clean from chips. I hate blowing chips all over the place and this helps me keep things clean and neat. I probably turn it more often that I should, but hey, that's how I like it. Also, the first link for this glasses works great if you have to get under your car. I had the smaller type, and well, got dirt in my eyes, so I went to these and they are somewhat comfortable to keep on too.
http://grizzly.com/products/VOLCAN-S...k-Clear/T20449

Here's the other page with all the different type of safety glasses. By the way, kudos to you, asking for the safety equipment before doing anything is the smartest thing any of us can do. So we know you got the common sense.
http://grizzly.com/products/searchre...aspx?q=glasses

If glasses bother you, there are also full face masks that you wear over your face and you put them on like a hat.
http://grizzly.com/products/searchre...=face%20shield

You can find safety glasses at most hardware stores or even some auto parts stores, depending on where you live and what's available. This stuff is available pretty much anywhere. I can't think of any one that doesn't want to safeguard their eyes or any other body part for that matter.