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This is kind of an interesting story. I have a friend who has been mentoring me for years in machining. I started out about 7 years ago with a manual Sherline. I made some pretty impressive parts for my radio control helicopters on that little machine (if I do say so myself).
Well, I had this grand idea to build a modern version of an antique woodworking machine, but, to do so, I needed a milling machine that was a bit more in capabilities than my sherline. So, a Syil SX3 was purchased last year, along with Dolphin Cad/Cam software (which I love by the way).
I started out using ER15 collets to hold my tooling. That turned out to be a major pain as the time it took to change endmills was lengthy. A friend lent me some of his spare Falcon Kwik-Loc quick change tooling system. I loved it. Beat the ER15 collets, hands down. The he offered to sell me his whole set for a really good price. I wasn't sure, so he let me take them along and he said pay me when you can afford it. So, I'm like OK, this sounds great. And believe me, I used the heck out of it to build my prototype woodworking machine. It was the next greatest thing to sliced bread.
Then I had a few people asking me about doing some contract machining for them on a small batch basis. Sounds good to me, extra money is always nice, but manual tool changes really suck BAD. Then I found the ZBot tool changer, and started drooling. Almost dropped the $1900 for a system for my SX3. That is, until I read about the Automatic Toolchanger that Hoss built. Problem was that it required a tooling system like the Tormach.
Well, if I bought my friends, then I couldn't afford the Tormach. After talking with my friend, he was totally cool with taking the Falcon system back, and in fact, wanted to know more about the Tormach after I got it. So, $480 later, I got the tooling that I needed from Tormach.
I got the Tormach stuff on Thurday, unpacked Thursday night, loaded with tools and offsets measured on Friday afternoon, then Friday evening, I decided to try cutting a few parts with the new toolholders. If my jaw hitting the ground isn't description enough, suffice it to say that I was COMPLETELY floored by the quality of cut that I got.
I was running a .25" endmill at 7IPM and about .08" DOC at 3400 RPM with coolant from a FogBuster. Thinking that I was going to regret it, I started pushing the cutting speed up faster and faster. I was soon running at 13IPM and getting the same quality finish. The finish I was getting with the Falcon system was barely adequate. I eventually pushed my speeds up to 15IPM and was still getting a good cut. I was able to take the time to make the part from over 35 minutes to under 20 minutes.
And the noise was different too. Or, should I say LACK of noise. There was no chattering sounds or anything. So, for close to 1/4th the price I was going to pay for the Falcon system, I now have a tooling system that outperforms the falcon by at least 50-65% more!!! And, I can use it to build an automatic toolchanger to boot!
So, I guess the point to my post is to give Tormach a HUGE kudo's for their elegant, reasonable and simple solution to a need that many hobby cnc users will eventually or currently do have.
I couldn't be happier with my purchase, and I can't wait until I get a powered drawbar built and an ATC tool rack like Hoss'.
Thank you Tormach!
Wade
Sounds great Wade! I'm really surprised no one thought of this system before, it's a really elegant, simple way to get repeatable heights in R8.
One question. Can the Tormach system be used with a standard drawbar or is air pressure required to hold the included R8 collet?
Serge
Serge,
Here is a link to a very detailed and well done quick change/ATC by Hoss: http://www.hossmachine.info/projects_7.html
Check out his other projects too, great stuff.
The air cylinder is used to put downward pressure on the drawbar compressing the sping washers, releasing the tooling.
When the air cylinder is released and retracts, the spring washers pull the drawbar back up closing the R8 collet grabbing the tool.
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Andy
You can use the standard drawbar or a powered one. It doesn't matter. I'm using the standard one right now and it works great. I haven't built my ATC like Hoss' yet.
Wade
Have you taken a look at Little Machine Shop's powered drawbar and ATC? The Z-bot powered drawbar is only $350, which seems like a very good deal.Originally Posted by wwendorf
http://www.littlemachineshop.com/pro...ory=1687114045
http://www.littlemachineshop.com/pro...3134&category=
They are designed for a mini-mill, but there is no reason I can see that you couldn't adapt them for an X-3.
Yes, I've seen them. I just don't want to spend the $350 on it. I can build a power draw bar for less than $75 and a tool rack won't cost me anything other than a few springs and some aluminum stock. A power draw bar is a pretty simple device and I can't see spending that much cash on it.
Plus, for now, it's not that big of a deal to hand tighten the Tormach system until I can get the power draw bar built.
Wade
Thanks for the link Andy, looks pretty neat. There isn't much of the stock mill left. That's the most riced up mill I've ever seem. Hoss takes it to a new level for mods.
I'm not really interested in an ATC system. The parts (putters) will have 4 tools max (2-3 most of the time) so it's not really worth it. With the Tormach system and a manual drawbar changes shouldn't take all that long. The mill table (DIY mill) will be pretty small so there isn't much extra room for a tool rack like Hoss has.
The ATC at Littlemachineshop is overkill (for what I need) and expensive. I've seen so many tool changers go down at work it's rediculous. Something like half of all CNC's going down were due to tool changer problems. More headache than it's worth in my application.
Wade: Thanks for letting me know. Very happy to hear this system can work with a manual drawbar.
Serge
Not a problem Serge. It's definately fast and easy. About 1/2 turn of the draw bar locks and unlocks the toolholder. I do give it a good hard snug-up when putting a new tool into the spindle however.
Wade
Last edited by wwendorf; 04-09-2008 at 02:45 PM.
My favorite way to tighten and loosen the toolbar is a cheap electric ratchet. I used to use my nice dewalt one. But I bought a cheap chinese one, mounted it, and put the switch on my mpg. No reaching up and a tool change takes 1/2 a second less. The real reason I did it wasnt for time savings, it was because I had difficulty tightening and untightening with a wrench. Sometimes it would just not let go. I was also testing it for use with an ATC rather than a sprung drawbar, but the problem is the tool doesnt drop like it does with my drawbar setup. However, until the other stuff is done, the cheap ratchet is one there.
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