duplomatic tool turret and other retrofit questions

[panaceabea]

I have a duplomatic bsv200 tool turret with 12 station tool plate I need to control on a lathe retrofit I am doing , does anyone have any experience with the duplomatic turret?

Here is the machine I am working on , its new and was still on the original pallet but does not have a controller or amps/drives for the servo motors.

I have sorted out all the wiring and have new drives coming for the x and z axis servos . I have all the home switches limits , hyd tailstock pumps oilers and small details sorted out but I am just down to figuring out how to unlock and index the turret , Looking at the simple print duplomatic sent I see a coil that needs to be energised 24v to unlock and I see the two windings that need to be energised 240v , one for ccw one for cw. The pin out for the big cannon typ plug shows an individual pin for each position on the turret, are these signal pins that simply tell the plc what position the turret is at? or are these the individual pins that need to be energised to cause the turret to rotate to that paticular location.

Also curious what type PLC and controller you guys might reccomend for this machine to get it back up and running? I would like to use mach and a std pc since I am familiar . Any thoghts or positive advice welcome.

[Al_The_Man]

Not familiar with that make of lathe, but usually the position sensor are inputs to the PLC to indicate in position, some have a double lot that indicate approach, or will go into slow when the adjacent position is reached, you need to get full documentation on the turret in order to supply and program, is there no support from the manufacturer?
If you are going with a separate PLC, almost any make will do, one of my favourite's is Mitsubishi.
you could output the M code bit from mach and then send a Fin(ish) signal back when in position.
I see it also has a probe included in the turret, you will need probe macro's also to put that in operation.
Whose make and type are the servo motors?
Al.

[panaceabea]

Lathe is a Moog Hydrapoint which was absorbed by Hurco in aprox 1990
servo motors are 66 lbin GE 3phase ac

probe is renishaw and has an interface inside the main cabinet, there is another behind a door just above the spindle that extends out to set up the tools. It would be nice to get the probes working at some point down the line but currently just trying to work thru all the basics.
I do have a 5 page pdf file from the tool turret manufacturer, Duplomatic, If i can figure out how to post the one page with wiring diagram I will , so far other than reccomending I contact a trained technician thats all they have been able/willing to offer

[Al_The_Man]

If you have the details in PDF, you should be able to post the whole thing as an attachment (500kb).
If too large, you could use a file posting site, like Divshare etc.
Or I could send you an address via a PM to take a look at it.
Al.

[panaceabea]

here is a link to the file

http://www.thompsonmachine.net/img/mhp/dup.pdf

[Al_The_Man]

co-incidentally I had a retro fit recently that used a similar turret, It was Italian also so I believe it is the same make.
The set up looks almost identical.
You have to program the sequence according to the timing diagram.
In the one I did it has a 3phase motor for the turret rotation, index limit switches and electro-magnet clamp & unclamp, as well as a final mechanical clamp.
The sequence is magnetic unclamp, start motor clockwise, look for position switch, stop motor, reverse motor for brief clamp, energise magnetic clamp (reverse polarity to unclamp).
It appears to be a 3 phase index motor also.
Al.

[panaceabea]

Hi Al , I spoke with the fellow at duplomatic for nearly an hour today and thats exactly how he described its operation to me, that portion seems like it will be pretty simple to program a basic PLC to handle , its the position sensing and indexing to the proper location that I am a little unsure how to program for. The fellow mentioned there are two contacts per station , one tells the PLC the called out position is comming up and the second tells the plc that the desired position is reached. Any thoughts or advice on which plc would be suitable and how to program for this paticular turret greatly appreciated. They are sending me a xerox coppie of te manual in a few weeks.

[Al_The_Man]

If the system you are using does not have enough capability or capacity for the PLC functions, then if going with an external PLC, almost any one would suffice as the functions are pretty basic, just has to have timers for the indexing as well as the usual input/output.
My particular favourite is Mitsubishi, I have the PG s/w for this if you need it.
The thing I am not sure of with this particular turret model, is that usually the purpose of two switches, is the first is an approach switch that tells the turret so go into slow speed until the in-posn sw is seen & then it stops.
But I am not sure how they intend to slow the motor down as it is an ordinary 3 phase motor, unless you put on a vfd?
When using a PLC with a CNC controller, there is usually a basic communication, when a T signal is programmed, you would have to indicate to the PLC that a T function is selected and a Binary or BCD value for the tool number. The CNC program then hangs until it see's a Fin(ish) signal back from the turret PLC that is is done, and the Part program proceeds.
Al.

[panaceabea]

Yes the first terminal at each station tells the plc the proper station is approaching , I was also wondered how to slow the 3 phase motor. I found a copy of the original manual that should be here in about two weeks, I called the mitsubishi rep twice for information on their products and have yet to have anyone call me back . I ordered one of the dl06 PLCs from automation direct . I have just started reading the manual and playing with the software to program it, looks pretty straight forward, just a big learning curve

[Al_The_Man]

The one I did was just a 4 posn post tool changer and did not have the slow down, but was virtually the same motor, there is not many options for slowing it down.
Al.

[philserveng]

This is an MHP machine built in Cheltenham, England. Latterly, they were made by Geo Kingsbury who are in Gosport, England where the last few were built. If you contact them maybe they can help you out with some information. Yes, the turret is Duplomatic and are a "poor mans" Sauter turret and work in a very similar way. The shotbolt engages to allow the turret to be unclamped, when it has, the shotbolt coil is de-energised and the motor can then rotate the turret disk clockwise or CCW. The shot bolt fires in again one station before the tool station call, when it drops in to locate the turret the motor reverses direction to clamp the turret, at which time the shotbolt de-engerges again. The shotbolt is monitored with a pxy switch. Turret count is with either count switches or an angle encoder.

[panaceabea]

Thanks for the info , is MHP still in operation in England? This machine has a metal plaque on the side that says proudly made in America and list an adress in New York , When I google the info from the data plate I find info on MHP here in the US being purchased by Hurco and their product lines being merged