Newbie- Machines that get the job done at home.

[juliancrouch]

Alright, here is the deal.

So I have spent the better part of today scouring these forums (which I was delighted to find) in hopes of answering my machining dilemma.

I am going to school to become a jeweler, and maybe a machinist on the side (that part has not been decided) and currently am looking mainly for a lathe that I can turn most materials on (ti, stainless, steel, aluminum, wax, etc.) Nothing too huge, probably less than 3" in diameter.

In any event my search started with HF, and it was when I was poking around with the quality of their stuff that I became skeptical. From there my search lead me through quite a few different things.

I have taken machining classes, so for the most part I know my ass from elbow when tooling, and am quite aware that I cannot afford the stuff that I was using in class. That said I have done a little looking at the 3 in 1's because lets face it, they look damn good on paper. Again after looking around at what you guys had to say the endorsements went from **** to perfectly happy dudes.

So I suppose my actual question is: are there any 3 in 1's that work for most turning and average milling functions? If not, what are the best contenders with their pros/cons.

So far I have glanced at:
HF
ENCO
Smithy
Jet
Grizzly
Patriot
and last I found the Myfords, which even though it is just a lathe, I have absolutely fallen in love with, and for this I have no good reason aside from there is just something about it that is beautiful to me.

My price range is Sub 2k (USD) ideally half that (though I am fairly certain that won't happen).

If the 3 in 1's are all junk and there isn't a decent one out there, how do the Myfords stack up, and if they are the apparent quality that I have assumed that they are is there anything similar that may not cost nearly as much?

If anyone has time to read this a throw in their two cents, thanks in advance, I know I've opened a can of worms.

Thanks again all,
Julian

[307startup]

You can get one of the smaller chinese lathes 7x12 or 9x20 and soup it up to do pretty decent work, especially in the part size range you're looking at. With the kind of upgrades you'll want to do to get a really NICE modified chinese lathe, you'll spend about $1500-$2000 (including lathe purchase price). Check out www.littlemachineshop.com for accessories and mods you can do to these lathes and also the small chinese mills.

If you like the Myford, but can't see spending that much, I recommend the Wabeco line. www.mdaprecision.com These are very good lathes, with much higher quality and tolerances than the chinese lathes, at about 1/2 the cost of a Myford. I have used some Wabeco lathes and mills and I was pretty impressed with their capabilities, considering their size.

Just my $0.02

[dertsap]

http://www.siegind.com/Products/br-c2-lathe.htm

its not a 3 in one but if you plan to buy separate machines i bought this lil $600CA baby a few weeks ago and it works great , i bought it figuring i wouldn t be impressed and i thought i'd probably end up returning it , it's not going anywhere

[juliancrouch]

Originally Posted by WYLD You can get one of the smaller chinese lathes 7x12 or 9x20 and soup it up to do pretty decent work, especially in the part size range you're looking at. With the kind of upgrades you'll want to do to get a really NICE modified chinese lathe, you'll spend about $1500-$2000 (including lathe purchase price). Check out www.littlemachineshop.com for accessories and mods you can do to these lathes and also the small chinese mills.

First off, thanks for getting back to me, I am looking at that stuff as we speak. However, souping up a chinese lathe is about where my newb status really starts to kick in. I am assuming you are referring to something that would be purchased at lets say Harbor Freight? Also, assuming I ended up getting one of these either the 7/12 or a 9/20, what kind of mods am I looking at having to make to make it an adequate piece of machinery?

Thanks,
Julian

[Andre' B]

Most of the combination machines seem to start with a lathe and try to add some milling function.

If you only have room for one machine I would start with a mill, one of the RF45 or better the Industrial Hobbies version, it looks to be built better.

Then find a lathe headstock someplace, (Ebay) from an old South Bend, Logan, Delta, etc., in the range of a 7 to 9 inch swing.

Make an adaptor plate so you can easily bolt the headstock to the mill bed when needed, keyed to a T-slot for alignment. You can do the same for a tailstock if you need one.

Make a clamp to go on the spindle nose of the mill so you can lock it and prevent it turning by any amount.
Get some R8 setscrew type end mill tool holders and some lathe boring bars with shanks that fit in them. You can then use the boring bars for lathe OD turning.

You can also make a holder the puts the boring bar at 90° to the mill spindle for lathe ID work.

You also have the option of using the mill spindle for live tooling work, something most of the combo machines I have seen cannot do.

Here is a video of a Taig setup kind of like I described, however like I said above I would put the turning tools in the mill spindle and find some way to prevent it from turning when lathe work is being done.

YouTube - Taig CNC mill/lathe

YouTube - Taig CNC mill/lathe

[dannystooblue]

have you looked at http://www.lathemaster.com/? They look like nice hobby machines.

Danny

[307startup]

Originally Posted by juliancrouch First off, thanks for getting back to me, I am looking at that stuff as we speak. However, souping up a chinese lathe is about where my newb status really starts to kick in. I am assuming you are referring to something that would be purchased at lets say Harbor Freight? Also, assuming I ended up getting one of these either the 7/12 or a 9/20, what kind of mods am I looking at having to make to make it an adequate piece of machinery? Thanks, Julian

Julian,

Welcome to the Zone. And that's what's great about this place. The feedback.

You COULD go with something from Harbor Freight. I'd go with www.grizzly.com They have great prices and great customer service. And four locations across the country.

Adequate piece of machinery? Hmmm...depends on HOW adequate you want. The bigger the lathe, the heavier and more rigid it will be. I'd say for the tiny stuff you wanna do a 7x12 would be adequate. I don't know how good the screws are on those things...so a new acme screw or a rolled ballscrew might be in order. A custom nut for those acme screws, usually a moglice molded piece, would really offer a lot of precision for the investment. You could scrape the ways or have them reground. You could have the headstock and mating surface precision ground for a more accurate fit. You could add a stronger motor and VFD. Is it a belt driven model or gear driven? There are so many variables...and I don't know what kind of tolerances you are looking for. How precise does a jeweler need? Is it more about looks & finish, or absolute sizing? You tell me what you need and I'm sure that we can find the people who can tell us both what it is you need to be looking at in the way of improvements.

[skmetal7]

8x12/14




'nuff said

[juliancrouch]

OK, as for tolerance, I dunno, I suppose in the park of .005 and obviously better if I can get it. The hand tools that I have turned parts for were +/- .002ish, but I would not say that anything I am making needs true precision. Again, the better it is, the happier I am, obviously. Most of the things I want to make immediately are rings, and so they would not need to be too precise as it is going o a finger, the only things I would want dead nuts are things I will be drilling+reaming, and would hardly ever, if ever done on a lathe, so I think I would be fine there. Is .005 outlandish for these little machines, or are they a little better than that out of the box, I have no idea, my only experience is with big machines.

A couple other things, one is I know everyone keeps saying that 3 in 1's suck, and the milling functions are lacking, it takes a long time to switch between setups, etc. However I have yet to find out what "the milling isn't good" really means.

of all of the 3 in 1's this one seems to make sense to my brain: The Grizzly G0516, as it looks as if a completely separate milling attachment is on it, so maybe quicker changes and more accuracy?

As for lathes, here are some things I have been looking at recently, lemme know if I am looking down the wrong roads.

The Jet 9x20 belt lathe: Looks to be put together well and has nice features?

The Grizzly G0602 10x20: 1HP motor, which is kinda nice

Last, what is VFD, I am not familiar with that as an acronym?

A quick change gear box, is being able to change your speeds/feeds etc w/o having to manually move gears/belts around?

Who makes Enco lathes, and are they any good?

Thanks again for the help, I think I am starting to get a handle on what is out there...

[RICHARD ZASTROW]

Variable Frequency Drive?

[juliancrouch]

Cool, thanks for all the help guys.

By now my obsession with combo machines is obvious, I recently stumbled across the Grizzly G9729, and it looks as if it may be a decent combo machine since it has two independent motors etc.

One question about it though, on the specs the mill/drill is a 3/4horse and says it can only handle 1/2" holes, would it be possible to go larger if you took your time (assuming you could not turn it and use a boring bar?)

also, i've been looking at older lathes on ebay (south bend etc) and some of them have smaller motors than the 3/4hp of most modern lathes that i've been looking at, so how are they better? Is it just their weight that helps them out? Just curious, since most of the import lathes I have looked at have the same sized motor or larger in some cases.

Also, how are the old 9/10 south bend's?

cheers

julian

[dannystooblue]

I have worked in shops with the small south bend lathe's, they felt like a real lathe in comparison to some of the other tiny machines you have been mentioning. The hard part about getting a nice south bend is finding one that is still nice. They are lite duty machines that can easily be abused.

Is the weight of the machine something that you are concerned with? What I am asking is do you plan to carry it in by hand, up or down stairs, or with some type of lift/cart? The reason I ask is because you could pick up something like an older hardinge for a couple grand but they are pretty heavy.

Danny