CNC Retrofit - Kit verses turn on and go

[MetDetect]

Hi all,

CNC kit saga...

Well I had a choice a couple months ago, buy a turn on and go cnc mill like the CNC junior or buy a kit for a better quality mill and save a few bucks by doing the work myself. I opted for the kit but in the end didn't save any money as costs ballooned to around $5,500.

Today was day 40 of installing the kit that was only supposed to take the average person as little as a day to install... and I'm not done yet. Well take off 10 days for electrical work and I'm still 30 days working on the mechanicals. So what's the hold up right?

I guess my vision of a kit was quite different from the manufacture. I had ensured that this kit had actually been installed on the specific mill I purchased, in fact I purchased the mill they recommended as best for their kit. I thought this would all just bolt right on and I'd be up and running in a week or so.

I ran into issues not minutes after unpacking the kit from the boxes when I found some parts in the kit that were supposed to fit together did not. I used a grinder and file to fix these but thought I really should not have to be spending time fixing the kit before installing it. I shrugged it off at the time but later would realize this was a hint of things to come.

Thats pretty much the way things have gone, try to install a part, find a problem, remove the part, fix the problem. Tonight it was a limit switch, installed the part and the table would no longer move. Looked things over and noticed the spacer was overlapping and clamping against the table, removed it, tried to hog out the slotted hole as best I could to lower it below the table and after a couple tries it didn't look pretty but its bolted on.

The night before it was coming up 18 inches short of the supplied foam seal and the night before that it was missing radial bearings which I had to buy at my own cost and the night before that it was the z axis shaft being too long and the night before that it was...well you get the picture. Its like its been fighting every step of the way.

Instructions have been the other significant delay, they are at times just incomplete with continue to section B followed by "coming soon" but most often lack enough detail to get you through a task without questions so you have to think way too much about what to do. Sometimes they are just wrong and the procedure just doesn't fit the particular mill.

Lastly I have been disappointed with the quality, its not 1 or 2 parts but many parts that seem to me to have been machined in a hurry up fashion. Spacers that are not cut square or bored so that they stack evenly. Tooling gouges, bolt slots you have to beat the bolt into, mounts that are not bored in the center, screws that do not turn true. Perhaps I'm being picky but when I spend a few thousand dollars I don't like looking at parts that look sloppy and out of square. I'm sure they will meet their designed task but for example one mount had two bolt flanges, one was .100 shorter than the other and so the bolts stuck out the other side of the saddle and I had to buy shorter bolts. Its that kind of thing that erodes overall confidence in the product.

Support was initially excellent however at this point I'm probably the last person they want to hear from and vise versa. I don't know what I'll have when I'm finished, hopefully a cnc mill that works well but if I were starting over I might well go with a turn on and go machine even if it was a lesser quality mill, my experience with a kit has not been a good one.

[IJ.]

[sendkeys]

[ynneb]

Who sold you the kit?
At least other potential buyers should be made aware.

[HillBilly]

This sounds like a good ideal but sometimes these post get nuked!

Just Darek's opinion

[CNCadmin]

Originally posted by HillBilly This sounds like a good ideal but sometimes these post get nuked! Just Darek's opinion

If the post does not follow the rules, than yes they do get nuked.
If it's constructive and is not done to bash a company or a person than it's allowed.

[HillBilly]

Personally I did not like being called a poor retrofitter but if impowered I would not remove or edit this remark since it is someone elses opinion! Besides if I am and don't realize it then this is a valid comment. I wish we all had the same intestinal fortitude (guts).

Darek

[CNCadmin]

OK point made now lets keep this thread on topic.

[MetDetect]

Sendkeys makes a good counterpoint, I suppose there is no guarantee that a turn on and go machine would be a better product. The grass is always greener right.

I did not mention the company because thats not constructive and I do like the company. I am happy with portions of the kit, they have really good ideas and have been very helpful at times. They are also a small growing business and some of this may just be growing pains so I try to be understanding.

That said I am the customer and this was a healthy chunk of money so I can only be so forgiving. My intention with this thread is to help the next guy who's visiting CNCZone thinking about diving into this like I was a couple months ago to stop and think carefully before swiping his credit card. Communicate your expectations to the company before you buy and get an acknowledgement back in writing that says if things are not as agreed you can return the kit. Note I did not attempt to return mine and don't want to but such an agreement would be a good idea.

I would recommend the following...

Delivery - The expectation should be that they meet their delivery dates e.g. advise them to pad in some extra time if they need to. I would rather a company gave me a reasonable ship date with some time padded in and met or beat that date than to tell me its going to ship Monday and miss the date, and the next, and the next and get in a hurry to get it done. I'd rathery they take the time to do a good job. On the flip side don't go running to a competitor who gives you an unrealistic ship date when the other company just gave you an honest one.

Complete Kit - Agree that the kit will be complete when shipped then inspect the kit upon arrival carefully to ensure that its all there. They don't get paid until its complete and ready to ship, this provides them with some incentive.

Quality Control - Agree on a minimum level of quality, for the price its not going to look like 100 engineers from GE built it, but I would recommend agreeing that parts will be machined square without tool gouges or errors, that they will fit together as intended without additional machining on your part. Agree that they will inspect the parts before they ship for quality control purposes. Its your money, if they have a problem with this then look elsewhere.

Instructions - Ask for them before you buy, read through them VERY carefully to ensure they are complete and provide enough detail for someone at your skill level to successfully install the kit. If they don't again in writing state your concerns and agree upon a solution e.g. they will provide phone support and won't tire of you calling. With adequate instructions you wouldn't need to call for help so its not your issue.

Performance - Ask them if you can return the kit for a refund if it does not perform as advertised. If they are advertising zero backlash in all three axis get something that states if backlash is in excess of (x) you can either return the kit or they will resolve the issue. I paid about $1,000 for my Z axis kit, zero backlash ball screw setup. After I installed the kit I have 20 thousands of backlash that I'm told is my problem to resolve.

Time to Install - I'll set this expectation for you, installing one of these kits is no small task, expect it to take a few weeks to complete if you don't run into problems and want to do a decent job of it. Don't forget the wiring and electrical require serious time.

Electrical - Make sure you get something in writing on this, you don't want to get left holding a cnc mill with all the mechanicals installed and no support on connecting it to the drivers and power supplies.

[sendkeys]

great post MetDetect should help out someone out there

bytheway with your Z axis kit might think about buying .0001 larger balls and repacking the nut should take out the .0002
but your right this shouldnt be your problem

[metlmunchr]

Here's another point of view for you to consider..........By posting your bad experiences but refusing to name the source, you've cast doubts on all the good folks out there who are not supplying poorly engineered or poorly fitting kits. Start-up or growing pains should be borne by the company, not by the customer. Psychology plays a big part here. It's obvious from all the problems you've listed that you've been given a royal screwing, yet you protect their identity. Why? I'll betcha its because they're "nice guys". Right? WRONG. A guy can have the personality of a jackass and the disposition of a rattlesnake, but if he delivers what he promises, who cares what he's like on a personal basis? You're not in the market to buy a friend. People who sell half-baked goods are much more aware of maintaining the "helpful" image than the average person is. It serves their purpose, which is twofold. One: Get the money and Two: Impress upon you how helpful and concerned we are about your problems in the hopes that you won't badmouth us and keep us from selling the same stuff to the next unsuspecting guy who happens along. As a final note, please be aware that all the parameters you set out above are useless when dealing with a scammer. No amount of paperwork can turn a thief into an honest man. You can rest assured that your willingness to keep the thief's identity secret will ultimately lead to some other member of this list going the same route and finding the same problems. Quite possibly a member who would have been more than willing to help you with any problem with which he could offer assistance. These guys you're dealing with ain't your friends.

Don't take this as a flame. It's just a straightforward statement of the facts.

[arvidb]

MetDetect,

I have to agree with metlmunchr. Why don't you name the company, and at the same time describe both your positive and your negative experiences with them? This way the reader can make an informed decision if to buy from them or not.

Arvid