What does your business do with older CNC equipment?

[Caprirs]

Originally Posted by Geof No "might" about it; the amount by which the selling price exceeds the depriciated value is net income. In Canada it is know as Capital Cost Recapture or something like that and if you don't know about it, sell a machine and then spend all the money on a new machine you can get hit at tax time. Often the amount available for depreciation the year of purchase is reduced so you finish up having to pay tax on money you have already spent.

If I remember my conversation with the accountant, there is a time limit on how the re-sale is treated tax-wise here in the US. Sell too soon and it is as you described "recapturing". If sold after a certain time has past, it is treated as gross income I think. I don't remember the difference unless my CPA explains it to me repeatedly but the proceeds of the sale are treated differently.

Suffice to say that it may be financially better for a company to let a machine sit in the corner keeping the concrete from flying off into outer space than sell the machine.

[ALLtra Mach]

Whoaaaa, never better to "let it set", Even if you have to pay taxes, it won't be as much as you sell it for. If you really are done with it, get what capitol you can out of it now, floor space is not free!

[ALLtra Mach]

Whoaaaa, never better to "let it set", Even if you have to pay taxes, it won't be as much as you sell it for. If you really are done with it, get what capitol you can out of it now, floor space is not free!
Back to the original question...Many times, if you figure in the higher out put, accuracy and reliability of a new machine, it makes sense to replace junk or even perfectly sound machines. I worked in one shop where we had a 25+ y/o VTL that made parts just fine. When it did break down, which really wasn't very often, it was down for awhile searching for parts. Finally, it was replaced with a new machine which just the increase in production paid for in under a year. As high speed machining becomes more prevelant and accurate, there will not be room in a production shop for inefficient machines.

BTW, I have proven, more than once' I can make most parts quicker and more accurately in a CNC, using it manually or in MDI, than on a manual machine. Not saying there is no longer a place for manual machines, but I believe this is why they are getting harder to buy!

Finally, the company I work for manufactures, and remanufactures CNC machines. Most of the time, if it has solid mechanicals a new control can be retro-fit. However, the money spent to do this, couplled with the reduced production the machine will put out, usually makes that an unwise decisiion for a production enviroment!

[carbidecraters]

Most large companies either send them to the auction block or scrap them. I know of one company that scraps Fadals after 9 years! I cant even get a piece of tin out of them however.

[Geof]

Originally Posted by gridley51 Hi Geoff. Please tell me more about the American built Wards.I`m sure thousands of ex Ward people in Birmingham,England will be interested too. Mark.

You are correct...help, which make is it that I am thinking of?????

[gridley51]

American built capstan/turret lathes.
Warner & Swasey,Lodge & Shipley?,Jones & Lamson,Gisholt(also built in England),Hardinge and loads more that I can`t remember at the moment.
Mark.

[Geof]

Originally Posted by gridley51 American built capstan/turret lathes. Warner & Swasey,Lodge & Shipley?,Jones & Lamson,Gisholt(also built in England),Hardinge and loads more that I can`t remember at the moment. Mark.

Gisholt, and why I confused that with Ward I do not know.

And looking at those names prompts a question; what manufacturers of manual machines from years ago now make CNC's other than Hardinge?

[gridley51]

It might be easier to name the manufacturers who are still in existence.But here goes from this side of the pond.

BSA Machine Tools,Colchester/Harrison,Dean Smith and Grace,Binns & Berry,Wickman,Boxford.Also Cincinnati built machines here at one time,not sure about now.And I`m struggling to think of more
There are a lot of European and Japanese cnc manufacturers who made manual machines.Deckel,Maho,Gildemeister(DMG group) and Yamazaki spring to mind.
What can you come up with?

[Geof]

Originally Posted by gridley51 It might be easier to name the manufacturers who are still in existence....What can you come up with?

Nothing really. I realised that despite being in the trade for a long time I have never really taken much notice of the range of machines. My apprenticeship was almost exclusively on Herberts then when I started my own business I stuck with Herberts, at least for lathes. For mills I bought the Taiwanese Excello or Bridgeport clones and they are not worth remembering. Since moving to CNC I have stuck with Haas for simplicity.

[NC Cams]

We stocked our shop with dated electrically inoperative iron with the intent of doing PC retrofits. This turned out to be a major error. Why? There seems to be a void wherein later model servo driven iron isn't so readily adaptable to a PC.

I got spoiled by commercial closed loop servo controls. I had some minor experiences with steppers and made a concious decision to NOT go stepper due to a number of issues that have been discussed in other threads where I've posted.

For light and medium situation BUSINESS applications, you seem to have a choice of hobby/inexpensive "project" hard/software. Or, you can move up to much more high end commercial kits (IE: Camsoft, Ajax, Anilam, etc). Something in the "intermediate price range" doesn't seem to be there.

$500 to $1000 hobby kits yes,
$10K to $15K commmercial retros no problem,
$2k-5K for amps and PC w/closed loop plug/play software, no dice.

You either have a choice of an integrator based project - out of my price range due to business model - or lower dollar, adequate but lacking stepper driven devices. Do they work, yes. Are they adequate for some business work? Not in our situation, howeer.

I think that there still is a viable niche for decidedly not low end CNC hardware. Examples can be cited upon request. Although two PROVEN examples were/are out there and still functioning, sadly there are probably legal and/or political "issues" which preclude the ideas from being used in the "aftermarket" or at least adapted to the DIY home and small shop market.

It is too bad as these concepts would work and not be held captive to/by everchanging computers, O/S's and the Wintel gods.

[DareBee]

Attached is what I do with most of the stuff my customers want removed.

Occasionally they have a piece that I have a use for or can re-sell easily.

I have seen large CNC chuckers (25"ish swing) being bought at auctions by scrap jockeys because they are selling for way less than they are worth in scrap metal.

[carbidecraters]

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!