High End Machining Centers ($$$)

[Kool Parts]

Ok let's talk upper end Vertical Machining Centers!
Old school rules apply..like your mama used to say...if you don't have something good to say, don't say it. Just real world experience, with newer machines..as that is what I would be buying..new.
Not looking for good results with "reasonable priced" machines Haas, Fatal, ect got a wall full of those now.
I have personally seen great results with the Matsuura ES-550V...and the Mori NV4000 DCG. Both look to be great machines..solid as a rock producing great parts.
Okuma just sent the latest Vertical catalog yesterday (got the DMG today..both unsolicited...salesmen can smell blood in the water ) Okuma has pics of the MC_V, MB-V, and MA-V stripped to the castings. Very impressive, very solid looking!

DMG they have the best catalogs in the business, and what looks to be decent prices...so they must be crap...but they look good doing it.

The Makino has the V33 and S33...Makino has a great rep but I don't know these models, or the difference between.

My local Mazak used to have the biggest ass for a salesman...so I never considered them until now. I have apparently out lived him NEXUS Vertical or FJV series...

Right now in my mind I would like to see the Okuma in a working shop up against the Matsuura.



I was trying to decide between the Yasda YBM 640V, and the Mitsui Seiki VU50A...then I woke up from a good nights sleep

[RICHARD ZASTROW]

KP, If you're seriously considereing DMG, check out Hermle as well. I used to do business with them, visited their plant in Gosheim Germany, did run offs on turbine blade milling. Very impressed.

[Kool Parts]

RZ,
Thanks for the reply. I had not considered Hermle....just went to thier web site. Its amazing how similar they look to the DMG. The DMG sounds good and if I went that way I would look seriously at the Siemens 840 D control .
Years ago I had a customer that had over 50 Okuma lathes and was always talking them up. I was looking at a long term job that would have taken a Horizontal to make it work. I called him up and ask about a Okuma Horizontal they had just bought.
I told him I was seriously looking a StarragHeckert . He yelled WHY would you by a German machine...how would you get parts from there?
I remember laughing and said "they would probably put them on a plane...just like they do in Japan...."
He hesitated and then started laughing and said Yea... I guess so.

[psychomill]

Makino.... V33 is their High speed machine tool (20k spindle) where as the S33 is more for the hard material materials or heavy cutting types. Both are great machines (from what I know... have friends who are running both types and they like what they have).

Mazak: Many are happy with the Nexus machines. The FJV is more money but its a bridge column machine. The FJV is tough as nails and accurate as hell, as well as fast as hell. Also, the FJV is available with large Y axis capacity. The Nexus is limited to 20" in Y (that's because its a C frame column and Mazak won't build them bigger than that anymore due to the inherent lack of rigidity of the frame style). The FJV is available up to 86" in Y though an with up to 60tools. I've programmed many FJVs and will vouch for them. Then, you also have the Mazak Hypersonic.... Balls to wall machine.

Matsuura also has some linear motored machines now too that I'm curious about....

How about a little more info on your machine requirements? Size, speeds, material types to cut, capabilities, etc....

[RICHARD ZASTROW]

KP, Hermle, Deckel (now DMG), Bostomatic and Starrag were all compared on that turbine blade project. Coincidentally, I was working for Seimens at the time in the Power Div. not electronics/controls. Previously I had bad experience with Deckel. Not the machines, the company disappeared from view every now and then. Starrag could do the job but cost 2 times as much. Boston Digital was a tie with Hermle but was snatched up by Micron. All good machines and I'm sure there are excellent others as well. Take a good look at who will support you after the sale. They're all $$$$$$$.

add: We also used some Okuma HMC's but they were only 4-axis. Good machines but couldn't make our "Banana" blades. Those required 5-axis.

[Geof]

This is way out of my league, I am sure it qualifies as high end. Somewhere on these pages they have comparisons of surface finish with a conventional machine that are impressive.

http://www.moriseiki.com/english/pro...dcg/index.html

[Kool Parts]

RZ,
Interesting that the StarragHeckert did the job but was double the cost...They were very completive when we were looking Horizontal...but service came out of LA (at least at that time). Service is important as they are all man made, but I am a long way from nowhere...hoping to "buy" a little reliability.
psychomill,
All parts will be made on a 4th..nothing exotic... preheat treated 4140, 7075 mostly. Travels 25'' X is plenty. Looking more for precision and repeatability.
Geof,
Thanks, I will try that page with IE. Mozilla has all of the text jammed up at the top

[Kool Parts]

Both of these are good candidates
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1sCw...e=user&search=
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJkdk...elated&search=

[SORCHEROR]

koolparts,you didnt mention what your use for the machine would be,they all have different qualities in many different ways,for graphite and hard steel machining at high speed i prefer a roku roku,production uses i like the okuma,but the mazaks have held up over time extremely well with low mantinence,if your looking for horse power and durability you cant beat a mazak

[ConKbot of Doom]

Ive worked with matsuuras, and fanuc Robodrills, the matsuuras were great, fast, heavy duty machines. The robo drills we used for things we needed high speed VMCs for. Only problems we had were with the pallet changer on the robodrills. Sensor switches got a bit goofy at times.

[joecnc1234]

I have alot of experience with a new (2005) matsurra horizontal. great machine the new controller is way better than the I80 and this machine can hog and repeat. It is awesome. I've ran haas, okuma mazak and fadal and the matsuura blows them away the 1g acceleration and repeatability of the machine has no comparison. Not to mention I have 20 year old matsuuras that make great parts everyday. Methods support is great you can usually fix any problem over the phone.
Joe

[Kool Parts]

joecnc1234,
Thanks, I personally have seen the Matsuura do some amazing things. witch is why thats the one I will probably end up with. Did you get the Matsuura G-Tech 840DiS Control? It looks like a great configuration. This particular company also has an older Robo Drill...I had never seen them in person...they are awesome! When you first look at them they don't look like they can machine plastic but they can work!
I didn't know about Metal Storm 2007 Open House until earlier this week.
http://www.methodsmachine.com/NewsAn...House.aspx?i=1
I was reading on another forum that they will have 50 machines cutting metal One of the guys from Methods said they just bought 550 lobsters for the cook out
I am trying to find better flights..last min flights are so fun...so far the best I have come up with is 10 hrs one way