Opinion on VMCs

[Firebird0095]

I would like to get the opinion of any professionals on here that have actual experience with one VMC or another. I am looking for a machine to use in a tool room for everything from jig work up to simple cavity cutting and rework. Hurco and Fadal have both left a bad taste in my mouth from experience with older machines, but is their new stuff any good? I have not found too many fans of Haas either. Any suggestions for an enclosed and fully capable VMC for cutting die steel would be helpful. Even though I have an aversion to Hurco, their VMX42 is almost perfect spec wise.

Thanks

[Geof]

Have you read through all the posts on the Haas forum? You will get a good selection of opinions about Haas. I don't know if I qualify as a 'fan' of Haas; my company has nine Haas VMCs and they make me a lot more money than they cost.

[Caprirs]

What did you not like about the Fadal and Hurco? Did they break a lot? Accuracy problems? User interface?

What size dies would you be working on? The bigger the die, the heavier you will likely want the machine. If these are something that fits in your hand, any machine would work. If they are bigger than you'd want to carry by hand, a heavier machine will be more accurate.

For tool rooms, most anything will work. There are no huge production runs where it would be beneficial to have the tool changer be .5 seconds quicker and the rapids be approaching light speed.

I would think ease of setup would be most important. Also, local service/support is critical. No matter what machine brand you get, when it breaks it is useless. Check the reputation of your local dealers with other shops on their ability to service the machine in a timely manner. Even Mori Seiki & Makino have service people and stock spare parts.

[jackson]

I'm not a haas fan but i would look into them they have came along way and there right for the price, also look into the Sharp i here good things about them

[dhiruj]

hi

we have a couple of cnc machines from taiwan... these are really value for money specially for the price you pay for these machines...

how ever used machines are very risky.,... if you want to use only used machines then the DMG machines are really good.

These german machines are very robust.... and accurate...

Dhiruj

[DareBee]

For toolroom type milling the Icon based conversational machines really get work done fast.
Very simple to program onscreen by filling in the blanks beside the pictures. I like Fagor's control (the 8040 being fairly common).
For 3 axis machining you will still need CAM though.

[the thrill]

if you're looking for an inexpensive VMC look into the Mori Seiki DuraVertical series. it's a bare bones VMC with up to a 40x20x20 travel and every customer that's purchased one so far loves them. if you want more power and versatility, look into the NV5000. It's pretty pricy but a great machine. I've taken 2.75" radial x .125" doc with a 3" sandvik face mill at 130ipm only pulling 75-80% spindle load on a cat 40 machine. They are beefy and reliable. We have customers running them 24 hours a day 7 days a week and holding .0002" or better the whole time.

[riverrat]

gotta second the mori mills. we have fadals, bridgeports, okuma.
the mori seiki mills spank the others on both part quality
and accuracy.
that's my experience with THOSE machines.
are you looking for new, or used?
we have a 1986 mori mv-55 that thing is one accurate PIG! all
50 taper and 40 horsepower of it!

[ZipSnipe]

Mazaak Nexus, does everything and has a chip conveyor. Switches out a tool so fast it made me jump back the first time I seen it. Very tough machine however your pockets should be deep as this machine is big bucks( to me anyway)

[Firebird0095]

I worked at a prototype shop that had a Fadal, and the construction was HORRIBLE. There was only one single bolt holding the upper bearing block for the Z axis to the column. The massive counterweighted head stretched the crap out of that bolt every time it came to a stop and consequently it bounced and overshot a lot. The servos never behaved correctly even after a tune up. That machine worked great on aluminum when you slowed it down, but there was no chance it would cut steel. It just chattered and broke tools no matter what speeds and feeds we used. I just was not impressed.

Hurco has terrible service on the machine we currently own, so that would be a hitch for us buying another one.

I had a tech from NT tool tell me that the new HAAS machines were notorious for runout and spindle problems.

We would be cutting things from aluminum jig plate all the way up to 4000 lb mold bases. Average cavity size is 12x12x4 but we go up to 24x50x8. If we get a table rated to 2000lb we would be ok with that. Conversational is handy but not a must. I have experience with mostly mid 90s machines, and so I am looking for peoples impressions on the newer breed of machines. I dont know how these companies reputations have changed and what they are now putting out.

We buy a machine to keep for many years, we do not trade machines regularly. It is worth it to me to pay a little extra and get a durable machine. We have Kitamura production machines and they have been very good to us. We also have hurco and okuma. Okuma blows them all away with their service.

[dhiruj]

Originally Posted by Firebird0095 We buy a machine to keep for many years, we do not trade machines regularly. It is worth it to me to pay a little extra and get a durable machine. We have Kitamura production machines and they have been very good to us. We also have hurco and okuma. Okuma blows them all away with their service.

If you are ready to spend some money then the German DMG is a vry good machine for tool room application.. Their DMU series is very versatile...

Dhiruj

[the thrill]

DMG has a very poor standing in the USA mainly because there is a lack of service and application support. They work their service guys to death and in turn they don't stay very long and quit.

as far as the nexus is concerned, that's a good machine and I know people who are very happy with them but as i said before the Mori Seiki DuraVertical is comparable to the nexus and capable of some really powerful cuts and accuracy.