Birmingham Mills and Lathes

[smilenbseen]

Hello

Has anyone had much experience from Birmingham mills and lathes? I have a few buddies who have them and like them, they bought them from www.innovativemachinery.net . I couldn't find them for any less on the internet anywhere and I searched hard. I haven't heard a single person complain yet but I wonder how they can get away with the cost being so low. Any insight would help I'm about to make a purchase.

[RICHARD ZASTROW]

smilenbseen, I seem to have upset a few folks when I gave my extremely low opinion of a new Birmingham 14 x 60 lathe so I will not repeat it. I have no experience with Birmingham mills therefore no opinion on them. As to low cost, "you get what you pay for or less." As to advice, the same is true. lol

[smilenbseen]

I understand what you are saying partly. But manual machines have gotten worse over time not better. And these from what I've been told and understand are just copies of the older machines made. Some of them are exact copies. So in some instances it seems I'm getting a better machine paying less than someone paying more. So what saying goes with that. I've had a couple buddies say they were amazed by what they got for the price, I guess I'm looking more to hear if there's any bad stories because this may be the first thing that seems too good to be true and actually is.

[RICHARD ZASTROW]

smilenbseen, Good copies of good machines would be great. Unfortunately, there are a lot of bad copies of machines that were cheapened with inferior materials and lower quality components such as bearings etc. Worse yet are the bad copies of machines that were junk before they were copied and further cheapened. If you want a god quality machine you will pay for that quality one way or another. Personally, I'd purchase a good piece of good ol' iron and re-manufacture it. Might cost more than a cheap copy, but will be a dependable piece of equipment with more re-sale value if later sold.

[smilenbseen]

I disagree. CNC machine sure I would only go Okuma Mori, maybe Mazak or Daewoo. But manual machines are old technology, it's simple to copy and not lessen money but lessen manufacturing costs. There's no R&D in it. Why pay 20,000 for the same thing my neighbor paid 5,000 for and there is no difference in the parts we produce. Making decisions like that would put me out of business quick. I'll pay big money for technology and a strong distributor but manual machines don't have either of those to consider. Now if you try one and find it to be a bad idea, then that's what I want to know. I don't want your opinion I want your knowledge, sorry but I would prefer someone who owns them and dislikes them to let me know. I could listen to people all day tell me they don't like Ford or Chevy and have never bought one before.

[RICHARD ZASTROW]

smilenbseen, I didn't want to repeat my complaints but you asked. The Birmingham 14 x 60 I had experience with had "hardened ground gears". There may have been some somewhere, but the ones We had to replace were cast iron (not hardened or ground), the oil pump didn't pump, the low voltage light system burned out as soon as it was started the first time & never could be started again. The machine was delivered with a square indexing head on the compound. The hole used to locate the pin had no hardened bushing, consequently the hole in the cast iron base was worn out quickly. Whenever a turning cut was taken, the square head turned and both longitudinal & cross feed settings were lost. On this model, the cross feed & longitudinal feed are controlled by the same lever. At the end of a lengthwise cut, the cross feed would engage and plunge into the workpiece. This continually worsened and got more and more difficult to disengage. At the end, we had to use a lead hammer head to disengage the feed. The halfnut must have been made of soft brass because it was worn out to the point we couldn't thread anymore. This all occured in less than 6 months. I think a machine like this can put you out of business as well. How long do you want to make parts the same as your neighbor? Want it or not, that,s both my opinion and experience. I,m trying to help, not get you PO'd.

[RICHARD ZASTROW]

smilenbseen, I looked at your public profile and see there that you are from Wisconsin as I am. If you want to contact me by email I'm at r.zastrow@sbcglobal.net If you haven't done so already, I suggest you read Adobe Machine's thread. General Metal Working Machine forum, Vertical Mill, Lathe Project sub-forum, Manual to CNC Lathe conversion. Lots of good stuff.

[smilenbseen]

That's exactly what I was looking to hear. Although I must say for all the problems you had with it, it seems to be odd considering the good things I have heard about them. That sounds worse than a lemon. I will probably give it a try though the resale on them isn't that bad so even if it does get bad in 6 months I'd lose a lot less than if I bought a clausing or something with a ridiculous price on it. There's a lot of them here in Wisconsin, perhaps just in my neck of the woods and they keep buying more. I've seen them right next to bridgeports and have not heard anything like it's not as good as my bridgeport. Perhaps it's like a Haas where it's a good enough to get you by if you aren't pushing it. Your list is quite long though, so I understand why you dislike them. If I find the same thing I will definetely post it in the forum.

[snakebit95]

Most likely smilenbseen is spamming for the link he provided in his first post. I have seen his similar posts on other websites recommending the same machine supplier. It is also interesting to note that smilenbseen lives in Wisconsin; which is the same location as Innovative Machinery. Coincidence?? Hmmmmm.........

[RICHARD ZASTROW]

snakebit95, I've been thru this one before on this forum. My opinion seemed to upset people who were fortunate to have no? problem with their Birmingham machines. lol There are quite a few for sale at low!!!! prices on ebay with no bids. Why? I looked up the dealer on the web trying to find out who the people were to no avail. I've been involved in capital equipment specification and purchasing for over 30 years. The best source for info is to get an operator of the machine in question one on one and find out the facts. I often think that people are looking for positive re-inforcement of their opinion or question posed. We're all guilty of that.

[smilenbseen]

Well since you live in Alabama I don't suppose you would know what it's like in the rust belt. There is a dealer on every corner up here, and I live in Madison, WI. I want to know of bad things about the machines, such a spammer I am. I have an older one but the one I just placed an order on is a lot more money. I was putting the website I found that had them cheapest, normally I post only in CNC forums as I do not spend a lot of time on manual stuff. I noticed someone posted I spammed somewhere else, people put links up all the time in these forums. If you find somewhere that sells them cheaper than you put them up. To make you happy here is another couple sites you can go to, www.southern-tool.com, www.americanmachinetools.com, I could care less who people buy from.

[snakebit95]

Richard,
I know what you mean. I procure capital equipment on a regular basis too. I make it a point to conduct a run-off prior to the machine ever arriving at our facility; with pretty strict ownership/performance clauses in the P.O. Basically, if the machine does not live-up to what is advertised......it will not set foot in our facility and the machine is on the seller's shoulders!!

smilenbseen,
If you are not an employee or profiting from that company, you have my apologies. When I see a member going from forum to forum spamming the hobby boards, it really bothers me; especially if they are not a supporting advertiser. There are a lot of helpful people on these forums, and a lot of great knowledge. Personally, I hate having to wade through advertisements when helping people or looking for help. That is why the forum offers a classifieds section.