centroid vs prototrak vs anilam

[thommo1]

Hello Everyone!

This is my first post so bear with me.

I work for a university mechanical workshop in England and we may be getting some money availiable to upgrade , we have cnc machines here but at the moment and do all our programming with cadcam. I would like to have some machines with conversational programming, at the moment I have discounted HAAS because their controllers are a bit low tech compared to others and their TM2 is limited on the Y axis.

Could any of you guys give me any opinions of the centroid, prototrak, or anilam 3000/5000 systems. At the moment the Centroid is the favourite because it seems very user friendly, it would be great to hear from anybody who uses any of these controllers.

Thanks in advance

thommo1

[lakeside]

most controller nowadays have conversational programming. I have spent many years working with prototrak and will say it's a very good machine. However with this type of controller, if you need to do a large file for any 3d work communacation time between pc and controller buffer is very slow with without up-grades to this type of controller.Just something to think about.

[NC Cams]

Is this a science project, an educational tool or a parts making business???.

Haas may not be an educators dream BUT they do make parts and they are quite robust. The neighbor has 4 or 5 and he's only had a service guy in her 1 time over the past 4 years I"ve been renting space in his complex.

If this is a retrofit sort of deal, I was really impressed at the data sent to me by Anilam. The support I got from the Ajax side of Centroid was on the lame side. Not at all the same from Anilam - but then, the local sales guy gave me the line to get RIGHT to the engineering dept...

My neighbor does 3 axis billet machining of race car parts (throttle bodies) and the stuff is jewelry. He machines masters for me for my cam grinder with quality that you have a real hard time telling the difference between the Haas ones and that produced by a dedicated $1.5million CNC camshaft grinder.

Not bad for their "low tech compared to others" controllers. Might want to look at them a bit more objectively.

I'd take the Haas tool room mill over a Centroid'd or Anilam'd machine in a heartbeat, evern though either machine is great. I'd think you could get extra Z capacity from Haas if you asked.

[thommo1]

Thanks Lakeside and NC CAMs for both of your replies. I would be interested to know how old the prototrak model that you used was Lakeside, in case they are a bit quicker now, they come with ethernet and USB today which might allow for larger 3D files, it is food for thought though.

HAAS does not have a DXF input facility, it looks a bit light weight and has restrictive travels compared to the other machines. Also they seem competitive until you start adding USB, hard drives, ethernet etc... that come as standard on the other controllers.

The main UK HAAS showroom is only 5 mins away from me so I have been there a few times NC CAMS. If we bought HAAS we would always be using CADCAM, I would like more to be done directly on the machine.

The machines I am looking at are a cnc knee mill, large Bedmill(which HAAS does not do), a minimill and a lathe, hopefully they all will have the same controllers.

They will not be used by students, they will be used be time served engineers, we manufacture one offs, mainly from aluminium and stainless steels.

Thommo1

[NC Cams]

The neighbor took a 3D autocad file, ported it to his Haas and made billet whatevers.

Maybe the Haas won't do the conversion but a postprocessor will. I can get details if you want but the machine does 3D and even 4th axis stuff ALL THE TIME.

One machine that used a common controller was the DX-32 PC based system used by Bridgeport. The same PC, the same PLC card (BMDC) and DOS driven box ran mills, VMC's (3 or 4 axis), lathes and surface grinder.

DIfferent glue chips/PCB's and wiring but the same computer hardware. Too bad that Bridgeport folded as it really had some charm - and ran on DOS6.22 and what today are FREE machines.

Check for a recent lathe retrofit thread I started. You'll find that lathes aren't as easy to do as mills. BE CAREFUL.

IF the Haas guy is just down the street, then his service should be REAL prompt and travel time quite cheap. The neighbors Haas VMC's and Lathes simply run.....

[thommo1]

Thanks again for your reply NC CAMS, from what I understand HAAS can be upgraded to do 4th and 5th axis machining, and you are right about them being handy being just down the road, HAAS is very capable when used with cadcam. We have 2 bridgeport interacts which we program using FeatureCAM. Not all of my team are that computer literate so it would be great if we could do more programming directly on the machine. We do not spend all day on the machines, we are "jack of all trades" doing fitting, welding or whatever else is needed, hopefully a conversational controller will make our lives easier.

We will not be retrofitting anything we will be buying new, we have a company called TRYAX who supply lathes, VMCs and mills with centroid controllers, XYZ Machine Tools who use Prototrak, and a couple of companies who use Anilam.

Bridgeport machines used to be built in here in Leicester where we are based, but it is more less finished, there is now just a Hardinge/Bridgeport distribution centre.

[NC Cams]

Here's what i've learned.

When the CNC thing went big, everybody jumped on with more feartures and more capabilities - better mouse traps had to be better. I've seen a lot of machines but one of the nicer user interfaces for conversationaly programming was found in the Bridgeprot Eztrak mill from the mid 1990's- we have one.

Does the canned cycle stuff that simple machinists need to do AND then G code for more complicated/fancy stuff. We even got a custom program written to mill our cam masters on it and they are of near CNC ground accuracy!!!

Yet, with the EXACT same controller card, the VMC"s do the fancy 3 or 4 axis machining but they can't do the simple stuff that their little brother Eztrak could do. Go figure.

They used same control card (different proms) in the Ezpath lathe. Canned simple stuff with true G code capabiilities if you wanted/needed to get fancy. And in a DOS controller.

Sadly, the guys who do the CNC machines seem to be prone to offer compexity in search of a need. They simply overdo it at the expense of now being unable to do simple stuff. Why you can do a 3D or 4D milling cycle but can NOT fill in the blanks on a screen and do simple milling ala Eztrak is beyond my ability to comprehend.

Too much time dreaming and not enough time out in the shop figuring out what's really important to the shop guys.

Check out the lathe retrofit thread posted recently - read between the lines and you'll see a lot re: Centroid and Camsoft. Go high end if you want do go CNC lathe. There were some horror stories from guys who didn't.

HINT: Neighbor has Haas lathes AND VMC's. Darn how that name keeps popping up.

[barnesy]

we have just purchased a king rich knee type mill with a anilam 5300 controller on it with only about 8 hour of training so far we have been up and running fairly well.

[HuFlungDung]

Are these engineers actually experienced machinists?

I'd be hesitant to turn anyone (lacking experience) loose on a cnc machine without a proven simulation of what to expect. If the conversational controls will simulate for you, then fine, if not, I'd stick with cadcam.

Haas does a rudimentary top view 'sim' in graphics mode (maybe this is better in new machines? ), but even that is far from being useful model to examine, IMO.

Chances are good that these guys are going to be computer competent, so I'd wonder if they would not be more comfortable working with cadcam. Most likely, their models will be drawn in cad already, so to reduce that to a blueprint and go out to set it up on the control just doesn't seem efficient.

If one guy is goofing around on the control trying to set up a program and the next guy has one ready to go on the computer.....

If they don't practice cadcam on the simple stuff, they will be less capable of doing the difficult stuff when the time comes.

Do you have some manually operated machinery already?

[thommo1]

Good Luck with your machine Barnsey, interesting to know that the learning curve is not to steep, we have had a demo of the anilam 5300 and it looks good, it is dos based so not as nice graphically as windows/linux based systems but it should be very stable and not give you much trouble. Thanks for your reply.

Hi HuFlungDung.
These guys are great machinists, with lots of experience, we are well equipped with manual and CNC machinery. We do a lot of manual machining with some cnc work, the problem comes when we have not used CADCAM for a while and have to relearn it. I like the idea of the manual/cnc machines that are now available as we will use the CNC machine alot more than at present. Also if we have a problem with the program we have to go back to the CADCAM to alter it. :frown:

[JRPOUX]

The Anilam is pretty straight forward.

barnsey, or any one with Anilam 5300 spindle start/stop functionality, I need a manufacturer and part number for the spindle start/stop relays. They are three small relays on an I/O board that is below the disconnect switch. They plug into three green sockets below the larger clear relay.

Your help woyld be appreciated

jrpoux@tisd.net

[magma-joe]

My vote goes for the Centroid. Last year I purchased a Centroid M39 3 axis kit for a Sharp TMV knee mill. I had Elrod machine install the Centroid kit along with Elrod's patented quill drive and other hardware. Brigeport used the Elrod quill drives on their EZ Trak knee mills.

I spent alot of time researching Proto Track, Anilam, Acurite and Centroid before making my purchase. The Centroid had many more features than the others, easily upgraded, had a USB drive, user friendly, and was simple enough that the owner could perform some repairs if needed. I have run a CNC plasma but I had never operated a CNC knee mill before getting the Centroid and found it easy to learn.

Another thing I liked was the ability to use my own monitor and keyboard. I used a 17" LCD monitor and a Elrod suggested a standard rubberized keyboard for $15.00 that is readily available at many computer stores. Many CNC controls have an integrated monitor and key board. When the monitor or key board eventually wear out you are at the mercy of the CNC control manufacturer. These are easily replaced on the Centroid M39 system.

The Centroid system can also be repaired via remote access on the internet. This feature alone could save a ton of money if repairs are ever needed. Having a tech come to your location to perform repairs is not cheap!

http://www.elrodmachine.com/

Centroid Features
http://www.elrodmachine.com/Route66%...20Features.htm

Waterproof key board
http://www.google.com/products/catal...d=0CCoQ8wIwAA#

Magma-joe