How much haggling is possible with the used mach. dealers?

[SRT Mike]

I've never done this before...

So let's say you see a machine - generally lower priced machine, in the $20k range (or whatever). I think the prices are negotiable, right? Is there a rule of thumb? I mean, should you shoot for 10% off? 20%? 5%? 0%???

I know it's a vague question, but for example I know on a new car you could be looking at at least 5% off often more depending on demand and your ability to haggle.

What about haggling on other things like asking for tooling, or having the rigging thrown in, or whatever?

I guess what I'm really asking is do the dealers bump the price up expecting people to haggle them down, or do they pretty much list it at what they want for it?

Just dont wanna overpay

[nervis1]

I'm trying to sell a couple machines in that price range now. When I bought and when I sell I just expect (in this price range) to get / take off about 2-4k. So haggle, no harm done in making an offer. The seller may even go further depending on how bad they want to unload the machine.

Consider the condition too. A real creampuff may be worth the price, a machine beat to s*&^ well...you need to factor in that it may need 5k worth of repair.

Just make sure you go and look at em run before you buy. I've been burned in the past by trusting the all too often stated "in perfect working condition".

[SRT Mike]

Could you PM me info on the machines you're moving?

I am not tied to any specific brand. We have Leadwell, Okuma and Bridgeport in the shop now and I am looking at Excel, Fadal, Tree, Haas, Comet, Bridgeport and others. I'm not a brand-hog

[Arthur Clampitt]

Like all transactions the price the dealer is willing to accept depends on many factors , What the buy in price was , How far behind he/she is with the mortgage/car/school fees/etc payments, what great deals he/she has coming up etc, etc .

They are not going to tell you any of these things , so all you can do is offer the lowest price you think they might accept and then work up slowly until you find a price that is acceptable to both parties .

Don't be afraid to start low , It can be surprising how often you'll end up buying something way below the original asking price , Remember no one ever made a living by having stuff sitting in the showroom , it's got to move !!!

[wizard]

Originally Posted by SRT Mike I've never done this before... So let's say you see a machine - generally lower priced machine, in the $20k range (or whatever). I think the prices are negotiable, right? Is there a rule of thumb? I mean, should you shoot for 10% off? 20%? 5%? 0%???

No rule of thumb but I do have to say that for the msot part used machinery dealers get a very good price for their hardware. So it would seem reasonable to be able to negotiate.

I know it's a vague question, but for example I know on a new car you could be looking at at least 5% off often more depending on demand and your ability to haggle.

Could be more than 5%, it depends on a lot of things.

A machine under power and inspectable to me has the most value. It would more or less go down hill from there. How much to discount a machine that isn't under power is debatable. If you don't know the history of the machine and the dealer isn't willing to offer anything up then I'd want a heavy discount. We are assuming this is a conplete machine as delivered, includiing manuals, tooling and other recordsl if those are missing that would affect the discount also.

What about haggling on other things like asking for tooling, or having the rigging thrown in, or whatever?

Personally I'd have a rigger that you trust and know do the moving. If you get into building machine tools you will need a relationship with a good rigger anyways. It boils down to yeah you can get it thrown in, but you don't have any quality control or knowledge of the rigger.

I guess what I'm really asking is do the dealers bump the price up expecting people to haggle them down, or do they pretty much list it at what they want for it?

That would very much depend on the dealer. The pricing I've seen on used machine tools offered by these dealers indicates that they have a considerable margin to work with. Of course sail boats aren't cheap so you may not get them to budge.

Frankly if a used machinery dealer offered up the attitude that his machinery has a fixed price I'd not do any business with him. Heck you can work deals on new machinery, so doing a deal on used stuff shouldn't be a problem.

It would pay to attend auctions, either online or in person to get a handle on where machine tool prices are. There is no better place to judge a machines value than at an auction. Once you understand what the world will pay for something ASIS you can then adjust your price to reflect any value a used machinery dealer can provide.

Just dont wanna overpay

None of us want to overpay, the problem with used is there is a huge gulf in between new and junk machinery. Any machine can fit anywhere in between the two ends of this spectrum. Sometimes it isn't easy at all to put a price on something. The only thing that I can say with CNC, is that unless the machine is relatively new it isn't worth a lot, mostly due to the CNC controls themselves. Like all electronics CNC controls have benefitted greatly from the electronics revolution.

Dave

[StealthDumpKits]

....and old CNC controls cost alot of money to fix when you need a board.

[tim-tbl]

Never ever pay the list price for a machine tool new or secondhand, on new machine tools the dealers are looking to mark them up 35% at least, some of this is to cover there shipping expenses, but alot is greed, you can look to to get a 25% discount on list without two much trouble, on used its kind of like going to a seconhand car dealers, look at the price they want for the machine and offer them 20% less and you will easily buy the machine,If they don't walk away there are plenty more fish in the sea.I bought a lathe a little while ago from a machine tool dealer the list price was £17000, I simply told the guy there was no way I was going to pay that amount and that in my opinion the machine was only worth £10000(which it was) after very little haggling I bought the machine for £10000. Most secondhand machines are bought in lots in a factory clearout and a lump sum is paid to cover the whole job lot, they do not pay specific amounts for an individual machine so they have a lot of room to manouver. Also when buying used do your research and find out what he average price for the machine is and look around,It really is like buying a seconhand car, I wiil give you one last example my old MD used to bee the md of Bridgeport and really new how to strike a deal when buying machine tools, he bought a new LVD ppeb 220 pressbrake for £80000.00-list price £120000.00 and a newTrumpf 3030 3000watt laser with twin pallet changer for £180000.00-list price £240000.00(that said he was an expert)Just be brave.

[Caprirs]

The machine tool builder I worked for sold the machines to the dealers for 20% less than list price. Dealer was responsible for all warranty labor for the first year and we, the factory, supplied all parts. That was new CNC vertical machining centers and lathes. From what I understood, that was pretty normal for new machinery through dealers.

Used dealers will vary greatly. Although they may have bought the machine cheap, some actually sink money into them to make them functional. Others are simply sleazebags who will rip you off. Research the dealer as much as possible prior to negotiations.

Typically, there are several points that can be negotiated other than the machine price like shipping, installation, training, spare parts, warranty service, and user's manuals. These vary due to the specific needs and capabilities of the buyer.