Looking for ideas for a CNC Mill

[spdrcr95]

I am looking for ideas for a CNC mill for machining aluminum dies for investment casting. I need about a 16” x 16” X and Y travel and at least 5” in the Z. I am looking for something that I could run in my garage on either 120 or 230 volt single phase power. I am looking to make dies for a start up company that does not have the capitol to send the work to a pattern shop. Thank you to all that reply.

[lakeside]

look at protrak dpm southwestern ind. about 35k new $700/month travel X40 Y20 the Y16 is what raise your cost
here a link on used and new
http://www.machinetools.com/MT/machi...p&groupid=8004

[Zumba]

Best thing to do is find a VMC on ebay that has a low starting price and no reserve/buy it now price. That way, when you win, you pay just a few bucks more than what someone else would pay. As a result, if you decide to sell it, you get all your money back, if not more.

If you live in LA, it's a huge plus. Tons of used machines in that area.

[Zumba]

Originally Posted by lakeside look at protrak dpm southwestern ind. about 35k new

A cheaper, similar machine would be this one from Grizzly.
http://www.grizzly.com/products/G0499

Or a similar one from Elrod at a similar price.
http://www.elrodmachine.com/3_Axis_C...TaskMaster.htm

[wizard]

Don't be affriad to check out HAAS also.

To be honest though I'm under the impression that a new machine is out of the question. If so; consider getting a Bridgeport or similar small machine (used or new) and doing a conversion to modern CNC controls.

It is very possible to build a gantry machine suitable for the type of CNC work you propose, the problem is that you need machinery to do so first. Better to attack the machinery problem by getting something that can do the CNC work you want done with a minimal conversion.

An even better option is to get a used CNC machine that can be retro fitted to 220 VAC operation. The servos are not a huge problem but single phase and a high power spindle is. You may be forced to limit spindle power depending on how much current you can source from your homes AC service.

Depending on your quality needs you may want to look at equipment from the likes of Tormach or Industrial Hobbies. If you get the home machinest magazines there wil be a few other companies specilizing in CNC conversions also. This puts you back into new hardware and the associated costs.

I suppose it comes down to how much you are wiling to spend. From my perspective you will not get into a ready to run CNC machine for less that $22,000 cash. A real option, if this project has any potential, is to rent a machine or buy fiananced machine. It wold be very unwise, for a start up of any sort, to layout so much cash for one machine up front. Of course getting a deal together is another issue.

Anyway you go I can't see you getting started for less than $5000. I'd really look around for a die shop that needs to make some $$$$ and would be willing to do your mold. Try Detroit, I hear it is tuff there right now.

Thanks
Dave

[lakeside]

A cheaper, similar machine would be this one from Grizzly. http://www.grizzly.com/products/G0499 Or a similar one from Elrod at a similar price. http://www.elrodmachine.com/3_Axis_C...TaskMaster.htm

cheap is the only thing you can say good for either of those machine. After real use you'll just throw away. They are for the diy not real machining, there must be a reason for the prices. Haas tool room mill only has a Y12" travel. Used may be the best route. You get what you pay for and I don't think that you are a DIY.
I posted the link for used equimpent there is a ton out there for under 20k

[lakeside]

[QUOTE=wizard]
I suppose it comes down to how much you are wiling to spend. From my perspective you will not get into a ready to run CNC machine for less that $22,000 cash. A real option, if this project has any potential, is to rent a machine or buy fiananced machine.
/QUOTE]
you can get a new machine with it a prototrak or a Haas 01(X20 Y20) for $500 to $750/mont at $75/hour that 10 hours a month and you get what you pay for

[lakeside]

I hope no one get upset that I think Harbor frieght and Grizzle are for the DIY they meet your needs completely But Real machining forces and run time will kill either machine in no time the spindle bearings are not made to run hours 8 straight at hight speeds and spindle speed will be very important if you are doing fine detail ingraving you should realy look for a used machining center with a 10k min. speed spindle

[spdrcr95]

I realize the cost of a good CNC machine. We currently run Mazaks where I work, it just this is out of the start-up budget (and I cannot do the work at work). I have the cad and cam sides covered with vendors I work with at my full time job. The problem I have is I know what I am doing is beyond the DIY level, the size of the work envelope is a little on the big size for most DIY machines, and the dies are needed 3-5 months before the rest of production and investment in a shop and machine tools. The issue I have with the die makers is they get (in the States) 4-5K for the smaller simpler dies and $12-18K for the larger more complex dies. I have experience making dies (cad through machining) but lack a machine at my disposal. Thank you all for you replies I will look into renting machine time and maybe a few other options for now.

[lakeside]

if you have a sign contract any machine company will rent to own Haas has a good program for this info on there website best of luck to you and "MAY THE CUTTER FORCES BE WITH YOU!!!"

[wizard]

Originally Posted by spdrcr95 The issue I have with the die makers is they get (in the States) 4-5K for the smaller simpler dies and $12-18K for the larger more complex dies. I have experience making dies (cad through machining) but lack a machine at my disposal. Thank you all for you replies I will look into renting machine time and maybe a few other options for now.

I understand your situation but you must realize that there is a bit of a difference between making a tool and starting up a business. 4 to 20 K isn't really alot and you will have a lot of other things on your mind. The other thing is that a die builder could potentially start cutting steel tommorrow, your ability to cut steel has to be atleast a couple of weeks out if yo are still researching machines. The only quick way to get a machine at this point would be to go used unless you can find a mill manufacture with something ready to ship right now.

As to the Grizzley mill I think someone slightly over stated the lack of durability with these machines. They are a replacement for a CNC Bridgeport, they should not be confused with a machining center. In any event issues with surface finish and spindle speeds should be taken to heart.

This brings me to the next thought, is your shop well equiped enough to progress through the whole die building process. If you need to purchase alot of other equipment that 20K price for the initial die could start to look pretty cheap.

For us here there are a lot of unknowns! As alluded to above how well is your shop equiped. How much does a run of product cost. How much are you allocating to marketing. Where does insurance fit into startup costs.

Many a startup has taken off without ever building a die in house. In fact I suspect most startups have that die built for them. The problem is that you really need to consult closely with somebody that is respected business wise because there are so many details. Building yourself might just be the way to go, but I'm not willing ot say that it would be wise to invest that much money for machinery for a starup venture.

Another thing to consider would be two startups. One a machine shop to build dies and tooling. The first customer of this machine shop would be startup #2 who needs a die. That would limit your exposure and considering your backgound likely to provide you with at least one successful business.

Thanks
Dave

[ronald44]

Try checking out www.durhamrobotics.com. They have a machine with approximately the same dimensional size that you require for around $1460.00 U.S. It comes in kit form as far as I know of.