Hitachi Seiki Not Cutting Right

[Eric MFG]

Hi All,

I have an older Hitachi Seiki lathe that’s not cutting right. Over the weekend running some parts a wrong tool offset value was entered on a an X move. Instead of offsetting as a negitive number in a rush I entered a positive number and a 5/8 boring bar bumped the edge of the part, blew the carbide insert off, broke the insert seat and knocked the part out of the chuck jaws. Ever since then the machine will not cut well at all, excessive chatter and sounds like the cutting tool is beating the part to death rather than cutting.

The bump wasn’t a rapid move, a spindle speed of 800RPM and a feed of 0.004. With all that said would the “bump” be enough to knock the turret out of alignment? How would one re-align the turret?

Thank You,
Eric

[Eric MFG]

Hi All,

I have an older Hitachi Seiki lathe that’s not cutting right. Over the weekend running some parts a wrong tool offset value was entered on a an X move. Instead of offsetting as a negitive number in a rush I entered a positive number and a 5/8 boring bar bumped the edge of the part, blew the carbide insert off, broke the insert seat and knocked the part out of the chuck jaws. Ever since then the machine will not cut well at all, excessive chatter and sounds like the cutting tool is beating the part to death rather than cutting.

The bump wasn’t a rapid move, a spindle speed of 800RPM and a feed of 0.004. With all that said would the “bump” be enough to knock the turret out of alignment? How would one re-align the turret?

Thank You,
Eric

I'm not sure what control the machine has, others and I are up in the air if the controls are a Fanuc or Yasnac spin off made proprietary to Hitachi Seiki. The machine model is: HITEC-TURN 20/20-600
Additional Info: (Standard type/High Speed 5000RPM)

[fizzissist]

I feel for ya, dude. Really.

Sounds like the turret might be not only out of alignment, but a little sloppy as well...

How does it index? Stuck an indicator in the spindle and brought a drill blank in a tool position to centerline and seen if it runs out? That's test #1.

It sure sounds like you're do for a turret alignment exercise. Yuck. PITA.

[Eric MFG]

I feel for ya, dude. Really.

Sounds like the turret might be not only out of alignment, but a little sloppy as well...

How does it index? Stuck an indicator in the spindle and brought a drill blank in a tool position to centerline and seen if it runs out? That's test #1.

It sure sounds like you're do for a turret alignment exercise. Yuck. PITA.

The turret seems to index just fine. I'll give what you mentioned a try. Is the adjustments something one could do with a standard indicator relativity easy?

[Delw]

The turret is out off alignment and also look at the head.. Hitachi's turrets go out of alignment extreamly easy.
they are very easy to align.
the heads are also very easy to align.
to re align the turret, just loosen the 4 bolts on the front and indicate it back in. if your tapered pins are still in there you needs to pop them out with a slide bar and get or make new ones. pop them back in .

the easiest way to align the hitech is to index to a I.d holder and then put a indicator in a collet in the machine(providing you have a collet nose, if not use bored chuck jaws and make a plug to hold a indicator. pop in the jaws then rotate the turret and move head with a cheater bar until with in .0005.

if you have KV tooling its easier as you dont have to worry about sloppy bolt on tool holders. ( kv tooling is the one that has a taper on it.).

for the spindle head. after the turret is aligned get a 2" dia ground bar stick out 6-12" from cut to size jaws and throw indicator on head then run z axis up and down the shaft.
or if you dont have access to such a bar. get a 3-4" dia round chunk on material still it out 12" push the tail stock in to hold the part then take .010 cuts and adjust head for taper.

YOU MUST HAVE YOUR TURRET ALIGNED FIRST before head alignment.
you should have popped one of the axis clutchs on Z or X.
What I have found with Hitachi's is that pins need to be installed if your taking heavy cuts heavy cuts meaning anythign over .100 per side OR if you run your machine fast and hard and or cut stainless and inco. the turret on hitachi's is weak(meaning it goes out alot) With out tapered pins in it. The KV tooling turrets are really weak.

The control makes NO difference as its all mechanical.

Edit: They always said to indicate the turret on position one with Kv tooling, I have never worried about that as the KV turret was always gound and with in a few tenths..
also remember on a hitachi your cutting directly on top of the part IE 90 º not like a slant bed( unless you have the old hitachi slant beds) so your most important part of your indication is front to back ie towards you or away from you. NOT up and down that is dictated and moved by your X0 in the control.


Hope that helps
Delw

[Eric MFG]

The turret is out off alignment and also look at the head.. Hitachi's turrets go out of alignment extreamly easy.
they are very easy to align.
the heads are also very easy to align.
to re align the turret, just loosen the 4 bolts on the front and indicate it back in. if your tapered pins are still in there you needs to pop them out with a slide bar and get or make new ones. pop them back in .

the easiest way to align the hitech is to index to a I.d holder and then put a indicator in a collet in the machine(providing you have a collet nose, if not use bored chuck jaws and make a plug to hold a indicator. pop in the jaws then rotate the turret and move head with a cheater bar until with in .0005.

if you have KV tooling its easier as you dont have to worry about sloppy bolt on tool holders. ( kv tooling is the one that has a taper on it.).

for the spindle head. after the turret is aligned get a 2" dia ground bar stick out 6-12" from cut to size jaws and throw indicator on head then run z axis up and down the shaft.
or if you dont have access to such a bar. get a 3-4" dia round chunk on material still it out 12" push the tail stock in to hold the part then take .010 cuts and adjust head for taper.

YOU MUST HAVE YOUR TURRET ALIGNED FIRST before head alignment.
you should have popped one of the axis clutchs on Z or X.
What I have found with Hitachi's is that pins need to be installed if your taking heavy cuts heavy cuts meaning anythign over .100 per side OR if you run your machine fast and hard and or cut stainless and inco. the turret on hitachi's is weak(meaning it goes out alot) With out tapered pins in it. The KV tooling turrets are really weak.

The control makes NO difference as its all mechanical.

Edit: They always said to indicate the turret on position one with Kv tooling, I have never worried about that as the KV turret was always gound and with in a few tenths..
also remember on a hitachi your cutting directly on top of the part IE 90 º not like a slant bed( unless you have the old hitachi slant beds) so your most important part of your indication is front to back ie towards you or away from you. NOT up and down that is dictated and moved by your X0 in the control.


Hope that helps
Delw

Thank you for the reply.

Looking at the turret today the machine has about 6 bolts in the center that are parallel to the turret face, each bolt has a lock nut as well. Are those the bolts you’re talking about? Below is a link to a picture posted on my facebook page. If the link doesn't work could I email you a picture? Ok pins, where are they located, under the 4 bolts mentioned? Slide bar is that a tool easily obtained? As for the clutches the machine seems to operate fine minus the excessive chatter.

Apologies for so many questions. The only bolts I ever turned on a lathe are the bolts to set tools.
Link: Eric Powers's Photos | Facebook

[Eric MFG]

Oops I qouted rather then posting a reply.

Thank you for the reply.

Looking at the turret today the machine has about 6 bolts in the center that are parallel to the turret face, each bolt has a lock nut as well. Are those the bolts you’re talking about? I have a picture that could be emailed if that’s ok? Or below is a link to a picture posted on my facebook page. Ok pins, where are they located, under the 4 bolts mentioned? Slide bar is that a tool easily obtained? As for the clutches the machine seems to operate fine minus the excessive chatter.

Apologies for so many questions. The only bolts I ever turned on a lathe are the bolts to set tools.
Link: Eric Powers's Photos | Facebook

[Delw]

Erik the bolts should go into the turret face. you dont have kv tooling so its different. and its the old green one.
there are 6 I believe in that one, they should be equally spaced.
can you take a pic of that turret face?
Thats a strong ass machine not like the hitech 20 S series and they last forever and repeat.
what year is that machine.

All turrets aling the same way and use the same type of bolt system pretty much. I am having a hard time from looking at this pic.

[Eric MFG]

Below is a link to some new pictures I took today. The machine is a 1986 it's has allot of power for a small machine for sure. Even for its age the repeatability is impressive it holds 0.0002 all day. All the cards were refurbished and new paint job but it was green. The monitor is tired, the text is fuzzy, hard to read sometimes it’s a guessing game, is that an 8 or 0 type deal. I guess there is a LCD upgrade out there.

So basically if I loosen the 6 center socket head bolts I can move the turret back into alignment? The head on this machine looks very robust and looks like it would be hard to knock it out of alignment. Also pins were mentioned would I still need to replace them? Also clutches were mentioned would I need to rebuild them as well?

Turret 1: Facebook

Turret 2: Facebook

Machine Picture: Facebook

[Delw]

Below is a link to some new pictures I took today. The machine is a 1986 it's has allot of power for a small machine for sure. Even for its age the repeatability is impressive it holds 0.0002 all day. All the cards were refurbished and new paint job but it was green. The monitor is tired, the text is fuzzy, hard to read sometimes it’s a guessing game, is that an 8 or 0 type deal. I guess there is a LCD upgrade out there.

So basically if I loosen the 6 center socket head bolts I can move the turret back into alignment? The head on this machine looks very robust and looks like it would be hard to knock it out of alignment. Also pins were mentioned would I still need to replace them? Also clutches were mentioned would I need to rebuild them as well?

Turret 1: Facebook

Turret 2: Facebook

Machine Picture: Facebook

Turret 1 those 6 bolts are he ones to align turret. you can see the pins also. goto a auto parts store buy a body shop slide hammer and attach the correct screw to it, I think those pins use a m6? screw the slide hammers new thread into the pin and pound it out.
ALways have a slide hammer and extra pins if you own or work with lathes. after a while you will get it down to a 20 min fix if that. someone will always crash one on that hot job on a friday afternoon and a 3 day weekend with parts due monday morning.

That machine you have is very good, I ran triple lead screw bodies and a tool to remove the root radius on one of those for a long time everyone said it couldnt be done on that machine. ran them with in .001 and then the gage dept lapped them in. litteraly ran hundreds in that machine. in the newer hitech20sII I ran thousands. I believe the lead was .238 maybe .328 and it was 3/8 dia. I had them buy the machine cause I got them a smoking deal on it. and I wanted another machine hahahaha. this was back in 94.

Delw

[Eric MFG]

Apologies for responding late. Ok so I loosened all 6 bolts pulled the pins (easy to remove) had the turret aligned perfect. Once I finger tighten a single bolt the turret goes back to being 0.003 out. I’m guessing the whole head is off and another guy mentioned there should be jacking screws to adjust the head and turret back in. Pretty much how the machine would be adjusted at the factory.

[Delw]

lightly tighten the bolts and indicate in then snug them then and indicate in.
you have to indicate in slowly to keep it from going back.
whats happening you have it to loose when your indicated in and when you tighten it , it moves.

USE A CHEATER bar to move the turret to the correct zero when the bolts are snug.
never saw one yet that couldnt be zero'd. moving the head will do nothing its turret alignment you need to adjust.
I never used the jacking screws to get a turret at zero.