How to learn CNC milling basics?

[desmodue]

After lurking on CNCzone for a while now, this is my first post.

I would like to buy a mill and convert it to CNC. I will be milling mostly aluminum, but would like the option to mill steel as well. Large volume production and extreme accuracy are not huge priorities as I am mainly interested in learning on this machine as a hobbyist. I have $2000-$3000 to spend on everything (mill, cnc conversion, tooling, software). Since I live in an apartment, weight and noise are an important consideration.

The problem is that I don't know much about machining or CNC. I have milled on a Bridgeport manually, but never learned much more beyond how to turn it on and move the x/y/z axis. I have extensive experience with Rhino and AutoCad, but have never used any CAM software. Before I buy anything, I would like to understand what I am doing. The information on CNCzone is amazing, but also overwhelming. If I were to buy something right now, I would probably get a G0704.

How should I get started learning about milling? about CNC conversion? about CAM software? Are there any good books on the basics? Would you recommend taking a class or talking to a machinist? Is it problematic to mill aluminum in an apartment setting?

Thank you for your help!

[awerby]

After lurking on CNCzone for a while now, this is my first post.

[Welcome aboard, Des!]

I would like to buy a mill and convert it to CNC. I will be milling mostly aluminum, but would like the option to mill steel as well. Large volume production and extreme accuracy are not huge priorities as I am mainly interested in learning on this machine as a hobbyist. I have $2000-$3000 to spend on everything (mill, cnc conversion, tooling, software). Since I live in an apartment, weight and noise are an important consideration.

[Yes, those would definitely be limiting factors, as is your budget. But you could get a CNC-ready Taig mill, put together a G-540 based control box for it, and still have enough left for some basic tooling and software. Leave some budget for building an enclosure - you're going to need one.]

The problem is that I don't know much about machining or CNC. I have milled on a Bridgeport manually, but never learned much more beyond how to turn it on and move the x/y/z axis. I have extensive experience with Rhino and AutoCad, but have never used any CAM software. Before I buy anything, I would like to understand what I am doing. The information on CNCzone is amazing, but also overwhelming. If I were to buy something right now, I would probably get a G0704.

[That would be more of a project to retrofit for CNC; do you already have a machine shop in this apartment of yours?]

How should I get started learning about milling? about CNC conversion?
about CAM software?

[You can start by asking questions here on the Zone. Everybody has their own opinions, of course, and there's everybody from seasoned pros to rank amateurs, so you'll get a wide range.]

Are there any good books on the basics?

[The books on G-code and milling I've seen mostly talk about hand-coding; few even mention CAM software operation. I've never seen a book about CNC retrofitting that discusses more than one project.]

Would you recommend taking a class or talking to a machinist?

[Classes tend to be vocationally oriented, so if they discuss CAM software at all (most don't) it will be focused on the industry-leading programs that you can't afford. Talking to machinists is always good - it's even better if you buy them lunch. I'd suggest trying demos of some different programs, once you get your mill running, and seeing how you get along with them, and their tech support people. It might be worthwhile to put a notice in the "Mentors wanted" section of this site to find someone in your area willing to come over and hold your hand as you're getting started. ]

Is it problematic to mill aluminum in an apartment setting?

[I would say so. Have you asked your neighbors how they feel about it? It can get rather noisy, especially when you're taking a heavy cut, and programs can take hours to run. Then there's the volume of oily chips you'll be generating (and hopefully keeping contained in that enclosure you're going to build.) Is this something you're going to have to talk a significant other into as well?]

Thank you for your help!

Good luck with it...

Andrew Werby
ComputerSculpture.com — Home Page for Discount Hardware & Software

[desmodue]

Thanks for the feedback. I'm thinking that taking some mill and lathe classes might be the best way to get into it. You make a good point, without access to a machine shop, I would have to pay someone else to make a lot of the parts to CNC a G0704.

I have been thinking about the enclosure issue...
Do you think I would need to fully enclose the machine, the way a large Haas cnc is built, or do you think a large tray with tall sides and backsplash would be enough to trap chips and coolant? I have not talked to the neighbors or girlfriend yet... Are there ways to significantly cut noise levels with rubber pads, acoustic enclosures, etc?

I wonder if using RhinoCAM would be better that learning other software, since I am already familiar with modeling in Rhino. How does RhinoCAM compare to SolidWorks or MasterCam? Are those two industry standards for a reason?

[Arich0908]

desmodue,
3k isnt alot to spend at all on your machine.
Tools alone you can spend that.
Id say to start up and get a decent mill Id go for a G0704 from grizzly. Or if you have the money get a LatheMaster LMT25L . That is the G0704s big brother. Those are two great machines to look at.
If your trying to spend a little less Look at Harbor freights Sieg X2 very poplar mill (wish I would have bought it to start off) It has many cnc kits available. But its bottom line to start off with ide say. For my first mill i would buy the LatheMaster.

Google Hoss g0704. He is a member here and has his own website. For bout 3000 you can buy your machine and cnc it. Probably get basic tooling.

[awerby]

Thanks for the feedback. I'm thinking that taking some mill and lathe classes might be the best way to get into it.

[It certainly wouldn't hurt. They'd likely be teaching you the old-fashioned way of doing things, but that's all knowledge that can come in handy, if only in helping you understand what the CAM program is actually doing.]

You make a good point, without access to a machine shop, I would have to pay someone else to make a lot of the parts to CNC a G0704.

[There may be some retrofit kits available, but you'd still need some shop equipment and a place to work if you wanted to do the conversion.]

I have been thinking about the enclosure issue...
Do you think I would need to fully enclose the machine, the way a large Haas cnc is built, or do you think a large tray with tall sides and backsplash would be enough to trap chips and coolant? I have not talked to the neighbors or girlfriend yet... Are there ways to significantly cut noise levels with rubber pads, acoustic enclosures, etc?

[Look around on the Zone to see what other people have done; there are some pretty nice enclosures that some guys have come up withfor their Taigs. Fully enclosing the machine would help with sound-proofing; the large tray would help collect chips but might not molify the neighbors. Rubber pads help with vibration transfer through the floor, but most of your noise will happen right at the tool-tip, and they'd be pretty useless for stopping that.]

I wonder if using RhinoCAM would be better that learning other software, since I am already familiar with modeling in Rhino. How does RhinoCAM compare to SolidWorks or MasterCam? Are those two industry standards for a reason?

[There are several reasons SW and MC are dominant in the industry right now. Savvy marketing and early positioning are a couple of them. The entry-level version of RhinoCAM doesn't have the full feature set that the Pro version does, but it's a lot less money and you can always upgrade if you want to. The Pro version of RhinoCAM has features comparable to MasterCAM but still costs a lot less, plus Mecsoft doesn't charge extra for "maintenance"; expert telephone tech support is free with your purchase. If you're already familiar with Rhino, adding the RhinoCAM plug-in won't be too difficult, since the interface is the same; it should save you a substantial part of the learning curve.]

Andrew Werby
ComputerSculpture.com — Home Page for Discount Hardware & Software