Ruined Tsugami Chucker (Hardinge Copy) Machine

[dksoba]

...

So I found a hardinge-copy lathe for a very reasonable price, in really good condition (although there was a lot of dust/dirt, the ways were pretty damn good. The spindle seemed good, but I couldn't measure TIR there.). Mostly, I wanted to buy a bigger machine instead of a chinese machine if I could. I buy a lot of stuff from China, so I thought I'd do the US economy some good and keep my money here for a change.

Everything on the machine seemed to operate quite smoothly. I sample part was cut and the machine clearly cut according to it's dials. Then... we had the machine moved.

I hired a "tow truck driver" to pick up and haul the machine. Unfortunately I could not be there for the pickup, and clearly this was a huge mistake! The tow truck driver apparently lost my lathe while going up an on-ramp. I'm not quite sure *how* this happened, but I do know it did happen. I had another towing company go out there and pick it up and bring it to our shop (car shop).

The lathe basically fell on it's frontside, and several levers and knobs were sheared off. There's quite a bit of damage, but the main important components of the lathe seem to be fine, although I'm not sure if the ways can sustain a fall like that without damage. I know the damage wouldn't be a lot if it could sustain damage, since the ways are super super super big and rigid!

Anyhow, I'm not sure if I can get parts for this machine (1967 Tsugami chucker). Also not sure if original Hardinge parts will work. Still working with the guy to have his insurance take care of this, so we'll see how things go. It's unfortunate that this happened, but people make mistakes and **** happens. I think if the ways *are* good, this machine would be a fine candidate for CNC conversion. Didn't really want to go that route right away, but that might be the only/best option.

Kinda a rough entry into owning my first machine . Let me know what you guys think about this. Would be good to know how much repair would cost if was even an option.

Thanks,
Matt

[Algirdas]

straightness of guideways, spindle axis parallelism to Z axis are under big question now. Lucky, if spindle bearings not harmed

[dksoba]

At first I thought the spindle bearings were fine but that spindle was being held by the motor.

So I disconnected the motor, and sure enough it seems that the spindle bearings are ruined.

So basically I have a very expensive piece of trash, that is worth nothing. wtf fml

[diyengineer]

Originally Posted by dksoba At first I thought the spindle bearings were fine but that spindle was being held by the motor. So I disconnected the motor, and sure enough it seems that the spindle bearings are ruined. So basically I have a very expensive piece of trash, that is worth nothing. wtf fml

That sucks! Well dont give up on it, worse things have happened. Just buy new bearings?

If its not worth the trouble, go after the guys insurance to get your $ back.

[dksoba]

Originally Posted by diyengineer That sucks! Well dont give up on it, worse things have happened. Just buy new bearings? If its not worth the trouble, go after the guys insurance to get your $ back.

I appreciate the encouragement. I'm going after the guys insurance. He doesn't seem to be avoiding my phone calls or doing anything shady...yet. Hopefully his insurance will not try to cheap out of me or anything. I had really bad luck with insurance before.

I'm wondering what the extent of the damage to the spindle is. If I buy new bearings, will that fix the problem, or is it possible that my spindle is also slightly bent/out of round. Hopefully getting new bearings will be as simple as sending my old ones out to a bearing dealer to have them either rebuilt or just get new ones. I'm sure I can get very fancy with the bearings if I want... ceramic ball bearings maybe? I know that none of the options will be cheap.

Also, if my ways are out of alignment, but they're still straight (can slide back and forth easily) I'm wondering if they can be realigned? Is this even adjustable?

Thanks guys,
Matt

[diyengineer]

I would buy bearings that work that don't break the bank (just in case the machine turns out to be a dud). I'm sure some one knows a million times more in regards to your machine and lathes then i do, but there may be possibly gibs that can be adjusted on the ways to make sure they are straight.
Your best bet is to get a really good quality dial indicator and holder and start checking this stuff out. Maybe even find some one off the forum who lives close that is a lath genius to come take a peak with some precision tools.

Originally Posted by dksoba I appreciate the encouragement. I'm going after the guys insurance. He doesn't seem to be avoiding my phone calls or doing anything shady...yet. Hopefully his insurance will not try to cheap out of me or anything. I had really bad luck with insurance before. I'm wondering what the extent of the damage to the spindle is. If I buy new bearings, will that fix the problem, or is it possible that my spindle is also slightly bent/out of round. Hopefully getting new bearings will be as simple as sending my old ones out to a bearing dealer to have them either rebuilt or just get new ones. I'm sure I can get very fancy with the bearings if I want... ceramic ball bearings maybe? I know that none of the options will be cheap. Also, if my ways are out of alignment, but they're still straight (can slide back and forth easily) I'm wondering if they can be realigned? Is this even adjustable? Thanks guys, Matt

[Algirdas]

guideways can be checked with accurate tool only. Sure, it's good, that sliding by hand is smooth. Try to rotate the spindle hard up to 20 rounds. Maybe something will just jump back to proper position the same way as it jumped out.
Nothing alse coul be decided without disassembling.

[TOTALLYRC]

Hi Matt,
Sorry to hear that the driver was a clutz (SP?)
I have had good luck in the past using flatbeds to move machinery.

I am in the process of converting mine to cnc and I think that I have all of the broken parts available. I can't help on the spindle but I think I have everything else that you need.
PM me and we can talk.

Mike

[dksoba]

Replying from my phone.

Checked spindle today again. Figured out the spindle locking pin was pushed in... once I removed it the spindle turns quite freely. I measured the runnout on the head with a 0.0001" dti, and found the runnout to be less than 0.0001"! This is a good start.

Matt

[diyengineer]

Originally Posted by dksoba Replying from my phone. Checked spindle today again. Figured out the spindle locking pin was pushed in... once I removed it the spindle turns quite freely. I measured the runnout on the head with a 0.0001" dti, and found the runnout to be less than 0.0001"! This is a good start. Matt

=)

Maybe the spindle lock saved you!

Off to a good start!

[Rbeckett]

http://gainesville.craigslist.org/tls/1969274862.html Dont know where you are at, but I found this and it is a direct replacement for the ruined one the tow truck guy damaged. I used to work in the tow field and if they have good ins, they will be OK. worth a look anyway. Hope it helps
Bob

[BillTodd]

Your problem will be that the lathe is only worth what you have paid for it. That will be the upper limit on what the insurance will pay. If Hardinge parts fit ( there are some similarities) the cost is likely to be greater than what you paid for the lathe - in other words, it a write-off.

You probably be able to buy the lathe back from the insurers for a nominal sum (perhaps free), if so, that machine could be a good basis for a cnczone conversion

The dovetail beds are bolted to the bed casting so there is a good chance that it has moved. However the Hardinge headstock (and it looks the same on that one) is locked to the dovetail, so should have moved with it (it would not be difficult to check).

Was the collet closer handle removed before the fall? If not, check the the rear of spindle for run-out too.

Good luck

Bill