Old high end machine or new low end machine?

[jon0]

If used reasonably, at what point in their lifespan would an old high end machine stop looking good next to a new low end machine. I'm looking at setting up a company for which I'll need a vmc, I'm trying to decide whether I should go for a new low end machine or an older high end machine like a makino, hitachi seiki or matsuura, then buy some cadcam software to make them easier to set up. I'm wondering if those out there who have used high end machines could give their views on how they perform 10 years after manufacture, compared with low end brand new machines and what, if they found them selves having to make a similar decision they would do?

I know there will be other factors which will affect any decision I make such as support and training but I just want to consider this possibility at the moment.

Kind regards

Jon

[MrWild]

There are some 30 year old Bridgeports with shot controls and like new iron the Tech schools sell once in awhile. Depending on if you're in the right place at the right time, Old will always get my vote.

[skullworks]

Old iron is always a good bet.

Back in the days when the machine tool builders charged an arm leg and more for every "meter" of memory...

Old Iron updated with new controls can really preform vrs your econo new models.

[underthetire]

Usually I would always say high end is better, even if its older. Stay the H**l away from Hitachi though. They really weren't great new,(at least the later models) and its getting harder and harder to get service and parts. All this depends on your type of work. A lower end ok machine like haas are very reliable, just not a heavy machine. It also depends on your budget. My absolute first choice for a used VMC for production would probably be a Mori Seiki SV500, or better still the SV503. If you do go low end, get a brand name thats been around for a while. A lot of cheap charlie machines come and go, leaving the customer holding the bag when it's time for replacement parts. I can tell you from a lot of experience, Mori and Okuma both do a fantastic job with parts availability, as well as Haas. Matsuura was ok, but they are a much smaller builder than the other three. Hitachi can be a real nightmare.

[Geof]

I think it depends on what you are making, the materials, the tolerances you are working to, things like that. And you have to consider that if you get old machines you may not be able to get service so you have to be able to do repairs yourself; with new machines you can get service and during the first year you have warranty coverage.

When I first started my business decades ago with manual machines I bought old and fixed them up; since converting to all CNC I have bought new because my company makes more money having people running machines making parts rather than fixing machines.

[skullworks]

Originally Posted by underthetire Usually I would always say high end is better, even if its older. Stay the H**l away from Hitachi though. They really weren't great new,(at least the later models) and its getting harder and harder to get service and parts. All this depends on your type of work. A lower end ok machine like haas are very reliable, just not a heavy machine. It also depends on your budget. My absolute first choice for a used VMC for production would probably be a Mori Seiki SV500, or better still the SV503. If you do go low end, get a brand name thats been around for a while. A lot of cheap charlie machines come and go, leaving the customer holding the bag when it's time for replacement parts. I can tell you from a lot of experience, Mori and Okuma both do a fantastic job with parts availability, as well as Haas. Matsuura was ok, but they are a much smaller builder than the other three. Hitachi can be a real nightmare.

( Big +1 on the Mori - have an SV50B )

BTW Mori Seiki now owns Hitachi Seiki and has taken over support of those machines. OTOH Okuma has phased out parts stock for most of the OSP5xxx Controls - often for those items you will have to send in your servo / Servo Drive or spindle drive to be rebuilt. (been there, done that, and the lead time could kill a small shop).

[jon0]

I'm currently looking at an Okuma vr40 II, with the osp7000m control, manufacture 1995, I'm told it's in good condition though I haven't seen it up close. What are the thoughts of those who have used this machine, availability of parts etc and what would be a reasonable price to pay (educated guess)?

As I mentioned I'd want to buy some cadcam software if I went this route, probably onecnc, will this machine have enough memory and is it's memory upgradeable without making it more expensive than it's worth doing?

[underthetire]

Trust me I was there when Mori took over Hitachi. Nighmare for the service staff. Yes Mori took them over, but most offices do not have any Hitachi service guys. "Most" parts are available, but not all.

VR40 is actually a fairly nice machine. A little slow on the tool change, but overall very reliable. I would expect a VR40II in the that year range to be somewhere in the high 20's to low 30's. Memory upgrade on all Okuma's is very expensive. Figure 3K+ for that.