D1-4 Cam lock chuck alignment Help

[tonche]

Hi i bought a new lathe and it has a D1-4 Cam lock chuck, i took the chuck off to put a face plate on it and i could not get the face plate to run true,after trying for some time i gave up on the face plate and decided to put the 3 jaw chuck back on,now i have a runout of 0.010''... how can i get resolved, are the D1-4 Cam lock chuck adjustable.. help

[packrat]

Are you sure you don't have s small chip stuck to the center taper of the spindle? To have two things , a faceplate, and a chuck, run out, I would look at the taper first.

cary

[HuFlungDung]

Also make sure there are no dents raised in the spindle face! Those camlock pins are hard, and you need to be very careful not to bump them carelessly as you put the chuck on the spindle.

The camlocks lock with clockwise rotation. Bring all of them partially to bear, then keep rolling the spindle over and tightening them a bit more. This will help pull the tapers together evenly. The flat face of the back of the faceplate or chuck backplate must close tightly against the face of the spindle when the cams are fully locked. The camlock spindle locates on the taper and face simultaneously to create accurate centering and zero wobble.

[tonche]

i have taken the 3 pins off the face plate and tried to mount the face plate and it does not sit against the spindle plate at all.there is a gap about 2mm.it is sitting on the tapper and not against the spindle plate,, looks like its the wrong face plate maybe..also how tight do you tighten the camlock screws

[HuFlungDung]

If you can turn the cams right around, that's too loose

If one or more of the cams does not lock, you will have to remove the allenhead capscrew lockscrew from the base of the related cam pin. Turn the pin in one full turn, reinstall the lockscrew and try again.

The cam should begin to lock in about 1/4 turn from the full open position, and tighten somewhere between 1/2 turn and 5/8 turn from full open. If the cam locks up with barely any rotation, it may be that the pin is too far into the backplate, so in that case, back it out one full turn as outlined above.

There is usually a marked difference between different backplates for different series of spindles. That is to say, if the plate is within 2mm of closing, it may just not have been machined correctly.

Without using a wrench on the cams, you should be able to shove the backplate onto the spindlenose by hand with perhaps only 1mm of clearance. The cams will pull it up the remainder of the distance. The backplate will require a bump with a hammer to dislodge it from the taper after unlocking the cams for removal.

I use a T handle wrench about 8 inches long for a D1-4 and pull it up equally tight on every cam. Not gorilla tight, but tight

[JoeyInCali]

Originally Posted by HuFlungDung Also make sure there are no dents raised in the spindle face! Those camlock pins are hard, and you need to be very careful not to bump them carelessly as you put the chuck on the spindle. The camlocks lock with clockwise rotation. Bring all of them partially to bear, then keep rolling the spindle over and tightening them a bit more. This will help pull the tapers together evenly. The flat face of the back of the faceplate or chuck backplate must close tightly against the face of the spindle when the cams are fully locked. The camlock spindle locates on the taper and face simultaneously to create accurate centering and zero wobble.

Mine doesn't even come close to that.
I have Bison Set Tru 6-jaw on a 13 by 40 Birmingham lathe.
It wobbles .

[HuFlungDung]

If you bought a third party backplate to mount the chuck on, you might have to do some work on it. I cannot imagine why any manufacturer would be unable to come close to perfect as the standard has been around for many years.

One thing to check is that the allen capscrews that lock the cam pins against rotation, are not sticking up.

[JoeyInCali]

Originally Posted by HuFlungDung If you bought a third party backplate to mount the chuck on, you might have to do some work on it. I cannot imagine why any manufacturer would be unable to come close to perfect as the standard has been around for many years. One thing to check is that the allen capscrews that lock the cam pins against rotation, are not sticking up.

I think you nailed it right there bud.
In order for the cams on the spindle face to rotate about 5/8", I had to spin the cam pins on the face plate 5 times to the left .
If I lock down the allen to the bottom, there isn't much contact with the allen's head. I stuck it out by loosening them but after getting the plate locked and looking really good for a while the chuck wobbled again.
I'm going to Home Depot to get longer allen screws and find a washer that fits that hole so I can lock down the allen.
Thanks.
Any advice is appreciated. I hate these freaking import lathes but good American steel that's in great shape are hard to come by anymore.

[JoeyInCali]

Still wobbling.
Change the allens with 16 MM long, ground the bottom so the head does not stick out too far to interfere with the faces mating flush.
I think the tapered spindle and the tapered hole in the plate are not mating at all.
I hate d1-4.

[HuFlungDung]

The allen head capscrews don't do anything except prevent the camlock stud from turning out of position. They certainly do not have anything to do with securing the backplate to the spindle.

The camlock studs need to be positioned to a particular depth in the backplate so that the cams in the spindle will pull them in properly. Typically, there is a shallow groove cut into the camlock stud to demonstrate the proper depth to which the stud should be screwed into the backplate. The amount of uncertainty from that point is one full turn one way or the other.

I don't know what you are doing with what you described, but I think you need to step back, take one camlock stud out of the backplate, put it into one of the spindle cam holes, and turn the cam. This should demonstrate by feel, what the cam does when you turn it. The cam has limited eccentricity, and runs out of travel if the stud is too shallow or too deep in the backplate. That is why you adjust the depth of the stud in the backplate, to put the stud cavity into the correct range of travel for the cam.

[JoeyInCali]

GOT IT!
THanks HFLD.
You should write the manuals for these Chinese factories.
The manual was dead wrong.
The instruction was spin the cam lock till the notch goes between the two V's in the spindle face.
Wrong.
I saw the notch on the pins of the backplate.
Stuck them in as you instructed without the backplate and looked at the the - on each cam ends up when that notch barely goes in.
I'm at .005 out on the very outside of the plate and .002 on the very inside ( no need to face this one I think ).
Thanks a mill boss.

[HuFlungDung]

Note that you should turn the cams clockwise to lock, although they will seem to lock if you turn them CCW, they are prone to let go because the cam is sliding up the wrong side of the ramp in the stud. As the instructions said, the index mark on the cam should be somewhere between the two V's when the cam is securly locked. That part sounds correct.

You should not have any wobble to the backplate itself. I'd check for any gap between the backplate and the spindle face. You should not be able to get any gauge in there at all, so if you feel around with a .001" thick gauge, and it won't go, then the fit should be pretty good. At that point, then I'd take some light truing cuts on the backplate register (the boss that fits into the chuck is called a register), to true up that face. Do not undercut the diameter of the register as this will make the chuck mount loose, but if you had to, it would be best (if there is sufficient material) to cut a brand new register on the backplate, facing off the old one that is out of wack.