Permenantly banned from fullspectrumengineering.com

[DavenUK]

Thank you for a very informative post about the situation. I can see both points of view, but agree with you the forum is not being used in the right way. Henry is wrong to a degree about other laser companies having forums - we have one here in the UK (maybe he meant the USA) and that is modorated buy a trusted customer, not the company itself.

If I buy anything I check the company not by looking at how good the item is but how well they deal with problems - after all I would not want to be stuck with what ever value of equipment/components that are no good or can't be used because I have run out of 'support time'.

Yes I would pay a premium to have 24 hour support, but a forum is a very good way of letting your customer base help you support your product for you! Loyal customers will defend any posts that are negative providing the product does what it says on the tin!

So Henry, relax - let your customers help you defend your product, if it is so good it won't need defending anyway. If all people see is 'it's so good I bought the company' type comments they begin to think it's too good to be true!

Hope this helps and wish you both good luck ;-)

Dave

[InfernusDoleo]

a forum is a very good way of letting your customer base help you support your product for you! Loyal customers will defend any posts that are negative providing the product does what it says on the tin!

Awesome point. The main thing that made me seek out cnczone and post my review was after I decided not to change my review for the payment of extended support, my posts stopped appearing on the website. I emailed them and asked, what the heck? I cant even post on the forums if I'm out of the support period? I was told to call the # and ask about purchasing support time.

Thing is - the posts I was making were not direct requests for support. They were questions for the other members of the community, which likely I could have received a great answer for - without any work or time on FSE's part. Win win win, but, they were ticked that I didnt change the review. So, no more support for me.

The forums can HELP them support the customers, by allowing other customers to be an informal support team. Its why I seek out forums like these when undertaking a new project or the like.

And like you said - if someone badmouths the product, and is off base, the community will rise up to defend it. Something I had not even considered.

Just 2 more cents...

[gmfoster]

All these small business should take a lesson from Art of Mach. Totally uncensored yahoo group and he has taken many beatings over the years. And he fully acknowledges that these beatings have created a better product, Not perfect by any means but pretty good for something that most of the "Experts" said couldn't be done at all. Thin skin and being in business don't usually work out very well over the long run...

Gecko drives also have shown unbelievable patience with negative posts....


Sadly if a firm advertises here it seems that negative reviews are usually considered company bashing and the thread closed.

[ger21]

Sadly if a firm advertises here it seems that negative reviews are usually considered company bashing and the thread closed.

Fwiw, myself and the other moderators have a strong belief that advertisers here should receive no preferential treatment.
We also get many requests from manufacturers to close threads, but we don't.
Very few threads here get closed, and it's almost always due to members inability to remain civil. Unfortunately, sometimes it's a lot easier to just close the thread than to constantly babysit.

Imo, customers deserve to here both the good and the bad about a company. It's the only way they can make an informed decision on where to spend there money. We do the best we can.

[Tweakie]

Fwiw, myself and the other moderators have a strong belief that advertisers here should receive no preferential treatment.
We also get many requests from manufacturers to close threads, but we don't.
Very few threads here get closed, and it's almost always due to members inability to remain civil. Unfortunately, sometimes it's a lot easier to just close the thread than to constantly babysit.

Imo, customers deserve to here both the good and the bad about a company. It's the only way they can make an informed decision on where to spend there money. We do the best we can.

Extremely well said Gerry.


A little while ago our friend posted a dragon paper cut to show the high quality of work his machine could achieve. I traced his photo, corrected the aspect ratio, generated the GCode and produced a similar paper cut to show that Mach3 could do the same. Our friend criticised my work as being extremely poor and he offered to send me his original artwork so I could make a better job. I took him up on his offer but, as we all know, our friend does not like playing on a level field so the artwork he sent me was of such bad quality it would have been impossible to make anything anywhere near close to his original work. I did post all the evidence of this scam at the time but our friend made such a fuss and sent so many emails that he managed to get it removed from the forum.
Just what you would expect from an honest man running a transparent company?

Tweakie.

[InfernusDoleo]

All I'm going to say on the matter is that it IS a good laser, I'd like to keep using/improving/upgrading this laser instead of getting a new one, it's a great price for it, and I honestly hope that the changes FSE spoke of are honest and true, and some poor business practices in the past are just that, in the past.

[p38nut]

All these small business should take a lesson from Art of Mach. Totally uncensored yahoo group and he has taken many beatings over the years. And he fully acknowledges that these beatings have created a better product, Not perfect by any means but pretty good for something that most of the "Experts" said couldn't be done at all. Thin skin and being in business don't usually work out very well over the long run...

Gecko drives also have shown unbelievable patience with negative posts....


Sadly if a firm advertises here it seems that negative reviews are usually considered company bashing and the thread closed.

This is exactly why I have both MACH3 and Gecko drives. Both owners respond very possitively to both positive and negative criticism. Kudos to both companies

[wundram]

I've been using the FSE forums for a few months and have made a number of posts, and I have seen of a few of my posts go into /dev/null. FSE mentions that they are the only laser manufacturer with an internet forum, and I think that has a lot to do with the fact that laser cutting equipment is only now entering the price range for home tinkerers, where it used to only be accessible by professional and industrial shops.

This tinkerer customer is new to this market, and they have different expectations on things like this. They are willing to accept the short warranty, the steep learning curve, etc.. However they expect to have access to a community of other tinkerers to help them debug problems, or to discuss ideas.

I think that FSE would end up doing themselves more good than harm to open up the channels of communication between their users. I think their potential buyers are not very interested in star ratings, but in what problems other users have run into, and how they were resolved. So even a negative post might be show FSE in a positive light if the thread ends in some kind of resolution for the issue. But on the other hand, it is probably pretty scary for a small company like this to let go of this kind of control, when their sales are so dependent on their internet reputation.

Anyway, they do have a great product, and I hope they can make this transition.

[NFATeacher]

OK, I've read this whole thing and here's another opinion (READ: O-P-I-N-I-O-N, Opinion). I purchased a 60W Laser from FSE and a Rotary attachment for use in my school's woodshop. I was extremely impressed with the quality and price I saw on the internet when doing my research of where to spend the grant money I got from the school to purchase this type of technology.

FSE was unbeaten in that aspect. So I ordered and waited. Waited some more. I had to initiate contact to get answers on when things would ship and arrive at my location.

Upon arrival, I unpacked everything to find no manuals on anything, no packing list, no documentation (hard copy) at all. I unboxed some CD-Rs to find that they had any and all manuals and software + drivers I needed. Not what I was expecting but, OK. The honey comb table they provided was no where even CLOSE to square. I undeerstand that it REALLY doesn't need to be because of how you can setup your work within the software, but still, shotty craftsmanship speaks volumes about a man or business. The rotary attachment is the same, not square. While I have not had time yet to fiddle with that, I am leary about it as I don't want to have spent $1000.00 for something that doesn't work and now will have to wait God knows how long to get a replacement (and at what cost).

The point of my little rant here: I could see how InfernusDoleo (Ed, I'm not going to use your last name like FSE did in this forum as I saw that as unprofessional; unless you gave them permission) is upset with them and wants people to know what his impression of the company is on a free and open forum where others can read it and make their own decisions. The BEST form of advertising and word-of-mouth. If FSE is confident in their product and service they shouldn't be worried about the rantings of one man on and internet forum. But it seems to me that they might see a little bit of truth in what InfernusDoleo is saying and are scared. Hence the banning from their forum.

I myself have posted on their forum asking if others paid $6000 for equipment from them only to find out that parts are not constructed squarely. I have yet to see that post approved and actually on the forum in a new thread as I wrote it. I posted earlier this week or late last week. Can't remember exactly.

Bottom line: I bought the LASER. I will suffer through whatever to get it running and I will call FSE when I need. If they cannot or refuse to answer my questions because of this posting...then I will plug on and do what I can while possibly contacting the BBB. I can't imagine things will ever get to that point, but it is a last resort.

I wish anyone and everyone else the best of luck in their ventures with FSE and hopefully your experiences are better than others. But read as much as you can and make your own choices.

[InfernusDoleo]

Short followup: My honeycomb is also so badly out of square, I dont use it. I made my own hacked together version so that I can load items in the laser and be assured that they ARE square with the axis' of the laser. I should not have had to do that.

And as for my name - I politely requested the post be edited and my name removed, because not only was that highly unprofessional, it's a breach of my confidentality. I use many internet handles - but not all are unique. I dont need someone from a game I play googling InfernusDoleo and finding out my real name.

But - here it sits - still visible. I cant say that doesnt tick me off.

On FSE as a company, they have gone above and beyond lately with service. I think i posted here about that a while ago, and I cant say wether it's a change of business practice, or an attempt to shut me up. I'm an optimist, so I'll go with the former, and continue to post honest reviews and answer questions honestly when asked.

That being said - they are releasing a new version 4 of their software/hardware soon, and the improvements made to it are phenominal. I cant rave about it enough. It took the engraving capabilities from "mediocre" to "wow".

I'd still like my name removed from the public posts. I spat fire when I saw that. Still simmering over it.

[simso]

I am looking for a laser engraver, having read this thread, I have no intention of purchasing from this manufacturer, there are many manufacturers in china supplying machines, trying to manipulate customers feedback is un acceptable

[InfernusDoleo]

I am looking for a laser engraver, having read this thread, I have no intention of purchasing from this manufacturer, there are many manufacturers in china supplying machines, trying to manipulate customers feedback is un acceptable

Havent posted in a while - wanted to throw in my updates.

FSE has made everything good on my end, offered me outstanding support, without asking me to pay them back with good reviews. So on that end, all is well. Maybe it's a good thing, maybe it's just a fluke with me to shut me up, I dont know. All I do know is they've made me happy.

That being said - all this talk of cheap chinese lasers, and how FSE is american made.

I went to a trade show recently and saw a LOT of lasers... saw some impressive stuff. Spoke to some manufacturers. I spoke to one guy who asked what I was running, I told him I was using a FSE laser. He asked "Isnt that the company that says they are "100% US based""? I said, yes, their lasers are made in the US.

He said, "No, they arent. Look at their website. It says 100% US BASED".

So I looked. All over. I see 100% US BASED. Not "Made in the USA" or any claim that the lasers are. I've scoured my laser, I dont see anything saying WHERE its made.

I believe, and this is just MY speculation, that nearly all, if not 100% of the parts are made in china. I believe the parts are shipped here and they are assembled here in the US. That may not even be true and the entire thing is made in china, shipped to Nevada, then re-shipped from there to appear as having come from the US.

Many of the parts in my laser feel like cheap chinese stuff. The threaded parts that hold the lens in dont feel like well made american products. I've seen what appear to be EXACT replicas of the laser head (the piece that houses the final mirror) on ebay shipping from a chinese company.

The packaging materials feel like cheap overseas garbage. Yes, it was packed well, but the foam was that brittle garbage, the cardboard felt odd.

I'm not saying one way or another WHERE the laser comes from, just that after looking into the odd way they word things (what other 100% US company claims they are US BASED and not "Made in the USA" or something similar and more common?), thats how it feels. You can buy chinese manufacturered lasers, have them shipped to your warehouse, rebrand and resell them, offer Nevada based support, forums, Retina board programming, and claim you're 100% US "based".

Easy way to put it to bed is for FSE to say one way or another. They maufacturered here in the US? Where?

The deceptive sounding "100% US based", however, has annoyed me since I went to the show in September and it was brought to my attention.

A direct link to their website: