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Offering to extend the warranty for an improved review is an often used customer service technique. They are offering to stand behind their product in a fair exchange for improving the review due to customer service.
Its not just a misunderstanding over forum use - it's a lot deeper than that, as my review pointed out.
Never found the time today to post the update I wanted to. Maybe Tuesday, it's late...
Offering to extend the warranty for an improved review is an often used customer service technique. They are offering to stand behind their product in a fair exchange for improving the review due to customer service.
You see nothing wrong with the following:Originally Posted by MaryB
FSE: "If you change your review, we'll pay you off with an extended warranty."
Me: "No, my review stands, regardless if you give me free stuff, I still received poor service on the sale."
FSE: Ok, don't approve his posts anymore.
FSE: Ugh, he posted a bad review on cnczone, nuke his forum account.
You dont see anything wrong with that? Really?
There is a WORLD of difference between:
A) Change your review and we'll give you something for it! (Bribery/payment/buying good reviews)
and
B) We're sorry you had issues with delivery. To make it up to you, we'd like to extend your service period. Thanks for being our customer. (and upon reflection, maybe I decided to change the review in light of them making up for the snafus)
You really see nothing wrong with A?
Nope I don't, satellite TV companies do this all the time, so do credit card companies.
Then you're ok with consumer bribery and companies deceiving customers by paying for false reviews, it seems. I'll keep that in mind when reading reviews you post of products or services.
And just because some unscrupulous companies do it "all the time" doesnt make it right.
Company employees siigning up to forums, as if they were customers, to make favourable comments about a company.
Also a technique, which I am sure would never happen here
rabbit / ls3040
I am not an employee and we are hearing one persons side of what happened. I wouldn't blame FSE for not wanting to get into a discussion over exactly what happened.
Forums evolved from the evolution of the interrnet and are meant to be open and free for anyone to comment in. They are not meant for companies to use as sales tools. If they are used as sales tools and are heavily moderated then the comany has to accept the possibility a frustrated customer will comment on other unmoderated forums.
Why not just use a FAQ or simple database rather than expect customers to write free content for a 'forum'
Last edited by geekinesis; 06-21-2011 at 03:04 AM. Reason: grammar
rabbit / ls3040
PS just joking about the 'employee's post. English sense of humour.
rabbit / ls3040
English humor or not, someone joining and their first post defending a quasi-shady business practice looks fishy. Thats all I'm saying.
Not only looks fishy, smells fishy as well.
Ok, so hopefully I have time to post all of this before my afternoon of responsibility starts.
Now since Henry took it upon himself to post here and tell his side, I'm going to do the same, in the interest of openness and not hiding anything. Its why I posted the review in the first place. Only an honest account of what happened.
So on Saturday, I'm out with the wife and I get a call... turns out it's Henry from FSE. At first he sounded a bit apologetic, but as we talked he sounded a bit defensive. Asked if when I made my multiple phone calls to find out the location/status of my beam combiner, if I had to wait on hold or anyone was rude to me. Kinda frustrated, because I could care less if I had to wait on hold or if anyone was rude. I was ticked that my beam combiner was on backorder, no one told me, I had to call, was given a ship date, it passed, I had to call again, to find out the NEW ship date was a week away.
We then discussed the, what I felt to be, bribery. Over and over Henry told me that they dont have to give out free anything, and that if you scratch their back they scratch yours. Over and over I stated that, IN MY OPINION, thats not how a business should run. A business should offer stellar service, and as a direct result, you WILL get the reviews, referrals, and praise.
It seemed to me that he was of the barter mindset - if you give them something first (a review) - then they will pay you back with something nice. Scratch our back, we'll scratch yours.
To me, again, JUST MY OPINION, a business shouldn't operate like that. It feels like buying good reviews. Good reviews should come as the natural product of great customer service.
Now, as far as the forum censorship goes... he told me that I had used foul language on his site and cnczone and said things like **** and... and I cut him off, and said "I've never once said '****' on yours forums" - then he pointed out that I had said "I had a hell of a time getting the focus set" - so, just a heads up, "hell" is a no-no there.
But then he fully explained the point of their forums. Which, to a degree, I get. That being said, a phpBB FORUM being your knowledge base is a HORRIBLE idea. People see forums, and connect to them from your main page, by clicking the button that says FORUM, and oddly enough, they expect them to be, well... FORUMS. I expect that regardless of the clarification they give in the Terms of Service, they'll continue to hit frustration over the fact that they have forums, advertised as forums, running on forum software, that are NOT supposed to be used as forums.
People come to forums, pretty much for one reason: To discuss. Its why it's called a FORUM. And the whole 'use it as a knowledgebase' thing is a bit of a misnomer. There are threads with people showing off what they made (promotion), an unanswered thread titled 'When will FSE release a photo engraving program?' (question), and people saying 'Yay I just got my laser!'
Things like 'Yay I just got my laser' are not knowledge base posts. They are forum posts. You post it, yay me, and people respond: 'Congrats!' 'Welcome to the community!' and 'I'm jealous!'
Thats why I maintain that it's not a knowledge base. If it were, 'I just got my laser!' would not be allowed there. Thats a discussion.
If you're going to have forums, have FORUMS. Feel free to prune duplicate posts and the like, but let them be forums. Or, better yet: Have forums, and any good, informative posts, MOVE to the Knowledgebase section of the forum. That way you have the best of both worlds.
Over and over Henry said that they are the only laser company to offer forums. But - they arent forums, it's a knowledgebase. And, honestly, no offense to anyone, whup de do. Anyone can set up and moderate a forum. And if you cant USE it like a forum, then, no, you don't have a forum.
So, anyway, we get off the phone and honestly I felt like what I said made little headway. I didnt feel like I broke through the 'scratch your back' wall - he seemed ok with offering payment for good reviews. I felt he was defensive. The whole call almost felt like he was calling to defend everything and, well, try and convince me? I wasnt sure.
So later that night I get an email. In summary:
Apologized for problems with customer support and thanked me for my time on the phone call.
(Some of this is cut/pasted.)
As for part 3 - that was my original issue. All I wanted was to not have to chase THEM down and ask why, and where, over and over.In order to improve the customer experience, I have implemented
several of your recommendations:
1) We have updated our forum post disclaimer to clearly show terms of
use here: www.fullspectrumengineering.com • View topic - Terms of Use.
We have also lifted the ban on your username. [My interjection: He never did explain WHY I was banned]
2) We will review company policy on offering free/discounted upgrades
/ parts to ensure there is no miscommunication of intent.
3) We will review and update backorder status to inform customers when
parts are not shipped with the order. We apologize for the
miscommunication that the expedite fee was for your laser machine and
not for the accessories (which were out of stock).
They had mentioned that they were a growing company, they thanked me for my suggestions. They had previously spent all time and money on R&D but going forward would investigate how to better improve customer service.
He then went into some other things we discussed, and as a consideration for the issues I've experienced, offered some parts and services to me, thanked me for my purchase and business and hopes I continue to be a customer.
So - between the phone call and email, I've no idea what happened. But that email is exactly what I should have gotten in the first place, instead of the forum runaround, banning, and IN MY OPINION defensive phone call.
If they are sincere, and I hope they are, it's a great product that company can go far if they do it right, then maybe they are turning some things around. I cant say. I've my reservations. I am, by default, a cynic. I've been lied to too many times to get that email and think "Aaw see! Thats asweome!" - My initial thought is "Do what he said we should do just to shut him up, jesus christ!" but again, I'm a cynical *******. But I have an open mind.
No, FSE didn't buy me off. Thats pretty much impossible to do. I was ready to craigslist this laser and look for something else if I was completely cut off from support and upgrades from them (I actually asked him on the phone if they'd still take my money for the v4 upgrade - I'm $3000 invested in this laser, and v4 does things I need it to, I was kinda stuck with them. $75 is a small price to pay to get this working completely, even if the company pissed me off). So, no, I was not bought off. What I was, however, was tentatively hopeful about an honest change in the way they handle things. Could it all be smoke up my ass? Maybe. Only way to know is to watch and see how they do business in the future.
Buy a laser, leave a mediocre review, and see if you're offered stuff to change it. (Well, not intentionally - that's wrong)
Me? If it were my company and I saw a mediocre review? I email or call the customer, ask what we did wrong, apologize, ask how we can make it right. Hopefully, my effort in doing that gets my review updated. If not, well, I try harder next time with my next customer. I sell on ebay, I get negative feedback sometimes. You just try harder next time, and enough good feedback helps outweigh the negative.
So, we'll see. I'm tentatively hopeful. I'm out of my support period, and have exchanged a few emails with Henry regarding a problem I'm having engraving with the laser. Never once did he seem annoyed by the emails. Offered my advice on the issue, not sure if he'll listen to an amateur like me, but, who knows. Truly - I dont know lasers. But I do know computers, and programming, and mechanics, and a laser isnt that far off from those.
Would I continue to buy from them? At this point - tentatively - yes. We'll see how things go. Like I said 100x over, its a GREAT laser. It has issues - one of which I'll post here later and see if anyone smarter than me has input. It was just the company policies that I took issue with. If they are truly changing those policies, well, then maybe both the laser AND the company will turn out awesome.
So, you have my review, my ordeal, and now where I stand now. I've been as honest as I can be, giving all sides of this, and it's your call...
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