Rabbit laser motors?

[Mrebeiro70]

I think my X axis motor is shorting out my Rabbit 3040 and making it go sporadically crazy. What stepper motors are these and where do I get one? It's got a sticker on it but it's all Chinese.
Thanks

[voltsandbolts]

Can you give us a little more information other than X goes crazy?

I don’t have one of these machines myself but do use an EPILOG at work from time to time.

It could be many things.

The stepper motor may actually be going bad.
The driver board could be the cause.
The motor cable to X stepper could be failing.-- If I remember correctly the Y motor is stationary and the X axis and motor rides on Y. meaning the X cable must see some flexing. This is my guess as to a failure point for the X motor.


I hope that helped.

Rob.

[Mrebeiro70]

Rob, I've had this thing for two years and a good year and a half of that time has been spent fooling around with it because it's not working right. But usually it was software related troubles.

Now it's something very different and has nothing to do with the software or computer. Here's a breakdown of whats been going on the past 3 weeks....

1.) It was in the middle of engraving and the main (only) fuse blew. First time that ever happened. When it blew I smelled a burning electronic smell but couldn't figure out where it came from and don't think it was the fuse itself.
The next day I went to Radio Shack and bought fuses. I kept putting new fuses in and they kept blowing the moment I turned the machine on until I unplugged the water pump. Once the water pump was taken out of the equation the machine worked like a charm again. I guess it shorted out and died but we'll never know since it's a 220v pump and the only 220v outlets in the house are on the side of the laser cutter case. And we already know the result of plugging it back into the laser cutter outlet.

2.) Machine worked great for a week after that and then started acting really weird like stopping right in the middle of jobs and then wandering around sometimes very slowly. Like it was possessed or lost it's mind.

3.) I went through everything I could think of to fix or diagnose it but I'm not a CNC hobbyist or electronics expert. This thing is only a tool in my shop to me and I need it to do what it's supposed to with me having to take an electronics course at my community college.
There's a guy who says it could work again if I spend $1200.00 on a new power supply, 2 control cards, new software and a custom xml file. That's half as much as I paid for the whole machine! And there's no telling if any of those things are the problem.

4.) Last night I noticed something interesting. There's a red LED on one of the circuit boards that it usually bright red. The moment the machine starts acting up that LED gets very dim as if there's a short somewhere.
The machine at this point usually becomes unresponsive to computer control and if you can talk to it from the computer it doesn't do what you ask it to. For example, pressing the right directional step button might yield a movement to the left or perhaps a short diagonal move. It's totally random.

After this that little LED remains dim until I unplug the X motor from the control board at which point the LED goes bright again. The machine will again work fine until it happens all over again maybe in 1 or 2 minutes. Sometimes the LED goes dim the moment X a Y reset at home position.
And again, unplugging the X motor from the control board seems to clear the short. Unplugging the Y motor or anything else has no effect on the LED or the workability of the machine. It's just the X motor plug.

I've tried this with the laser button off and get the exact same results so I don't think it has anything to do with the tube. It seems like that X motor is behind it all. On my machine the X axis is horizontal and that motor is stationary so there's no movement of the cable.

Thanks, Mike

[Mrebeiro70]

That ribbon cable contains the Y motor control and the limit switches for both X and Y.
The plug behind it with the wires is just for the X motor alone.

Edited to add: I see from my earlier posts complaining about this machine that I've had it for a bit more than two years. Time really flies when you're not having fun. lol

[zax15uk]

Mike,

It is going to be difficult to fault find and resolve the issue from the forum unless you can do some basic diagnostics (or find someone that can).

The first step would be to check all the low voltages, and then isolate each sub system and test it. You can disconnect the laser PSU to test the machine, to see if it still has the problem - which I imagine it would.

Based on the information it is unlikely the motor is causing your problems, but if you can switch axis it should be easy to eliminate. My guess would be something with the limit switches or the controller/driver board.

Can you disconnect the limit switches?

Do not plug/unplug the motors with the system powered up as this is likely to damage the drivers.

Zax.

[Mrebeiro70]

Mike,

It is going to be difficult to fault find and resolve the issue from the forum unless you can do some basic diagnostics (or find someone that can).

The first step would be to check all the low voltages, and then isolate each sub system and test it. You can disconnect the laser PSU to test the machine, to see if it still has the problem - which I imagine it would.

Based on the information it is unlikely the motor is causing your problems, but if you can switch axis it should be easy to eliminate. My guess would be something with the limit switches or the controller/driver board.

Can you disconnect the limit switches?

Do not plug/unplug the motors with the system powered up as this is likely to damage the drivers.

Zax.

Hi, when you said to try it with power supply unplugged were you talking about that plug in the photo below? I unplugged it and tried running some files. It worked a little longer than it did yesterday but eventually came to a stop and started moving at random again.
The only difference this time is that the LED stayed bright the whole time and unplugging the X motor had NO effect at all unlike yesterday.

[Mrebeiro70]

I've also been told that since I need to replace my power supply that I should switch to the 110v version. That's fine but I don't understand what good a 110v power supply is when all the other components are still 220v. The fans clearly say 220v as well as a transformer on a vertically mounted card in the machine. Not to mention that Chinese bathroom fan fixture that's used as an exhaust? Where the hell do you even get a 110v version of that thing?

Maybe I just don't understand electricity but how can this work without replacing all these other parts to match the voltage?

[zax15uk]

I think the plug you removed was just the control signals for the laser PSU, and not the 220v input (could be wrong).

Do you have a good ground on the laser, to the electrical outlet? Then all internal grounds connected to the laser chassis? You could be getting some electrical noise, but don't go crazy grounding everything or you risk ground loops which would be bad! Ideally the PC and laser should be on the same electrical circuit.

If you do change to 110v then you would need to replace the fans and blower etc. I don't know why you would though.

Why do you think it's necessary to replace the PSU, are the voltages unstable?

Like I said before, you just need to narrow down the possible source of your problems - and hopefully isolate it to one board. It would help to see a video of the machine going 'crazy' or perhaps just a better description.

Where are you located, perhaps there's someone here that isn't too far from you with more knowledge that would be willing to help.

Zax.

[Mrebeiro70]

The 110v power supply swap idea comes from Full Spectrum Engineering

After I wrote that post I emailed Full Spectrum to ask how the hell this 110v power supply which they are intent on selling me is going to work in my machine without me having to replace every other electrical component as well. I'll let you know if I get an answer.

And I've never been sure what I'm supposed to be grounding this thing to. There's no ground on the plug but there's a ground wire on the side of the machine. I've got it clipped to a metal baseboard heater since I don't have enough wire to make it all the way to the great wall of China. What should this be attached to?

Buying this laser directly from China was the dumbest thing I've ever done. When it works it's easy enough for a child to use but it when it doesn't it can bring a grown man to tears.

[zax15uk]

Swapping the PSU when you don't know if it is the cause, and then having to replace other boards, psu's, fans and components until you get it to work sounds like a dumb idea. Unless of course you just want to buy a new laser.

If possible the machine should be grounded to the outlet where the laser is connected (to the ground screw or to the electrical outlet box). If it has been working all this time ok then it isn't likely to be the source of your problems.

So with the laser psu powered off (no input voltage) you can jog the machine and run a job but intermittently during the job it stops and the head moves slowly? Is this correct, if so... does it always move in the same direction and at the same speed?

It sounds to me like it is trying to find home, like it has either reset or hit a limit switch (either a power spike causing the reset or a faulty board, or a bad switch causing a false detect).

Feed me as much information as you can and I will do my best to help you diagnose the problem.

Zax.

[Mrebeiro70]

Swapping the PSU when you don't know if it is the cause, and then having to replace other boards, psu's, fans and components until you get it to work sounds like a dumb idea. Unless of course you just want to buy a new laser.

Really expensive is what it is.

If possible the machine should be grounded to the outlet where the laser is connected (to the ground screw or to the electrical outlet box). If it has been working all this time ok then it isn't likely to be the source of your problems.

I think grounding has been an issue since day one with this machine. I never did have it grounded correctly and over time I think I might have fried a component. I got a couple of shocks off the machine right around the time it started acting funny but I thought it was static. On dry days I get shocks off of everything so I figured that must have been it. The second of the two shocks seemed to happen the moment the laser started firing but I dismissed it. The machine is grounded correctly now but I think it's too late.

So with the laser psu powered off (no input voltage) you can jog the machine and run a job but intermittently during the job it stops and the head moves slowly? Is this correct, if so... does it always move in the same direction and at the same speed?

When I turn the machine on it automatically goes home just like it's supposed to. When I try to jog it either doesn't move at all or it moves in a totally random direction. I mean that if I click jog left I might get a movement up, down, diagonal, I might get about ten weird moves in row, who knows.
The speed at which it moves and the paths it takes are totally random. I really can't emphasize that enough.
It's like the machine is on some serious drugs.

The only jog button that always works and is predictable is STOP. It always goes home when I click the stop button.

When cutting jobs (which you can't even try to do anymore since you can't jog into position) it acts the same way. It might make the first cut or raster movement but then either stop for good or start acting wild going in random directions all over the table at random speeds.
Yesterday I unplugged it's serial cable from the computer and then watched it move around without any rhyme or reason on it's own for a good five minutes.

It sounds to me like it is trying to find home, like it has either reset or hit a limit switch (either a power spike causing the reset or a faulty board, or a bad switch causing a false detect).

I don't think it's the home switches because going home is the only thing it does with any predictability. If that control card is the "brain" of this machine then my guess is that it's really messed up. I've searched everywhere and can't locate a new Newlydraw 1.5 control card. Either no one answers emails or knows how to get a spare.
I'd much rather just pop in a new Newlydraw card right now than do a total laser overhaul since I was in the middle of several projects when this happened and I'm used to using Newlydraw. After two years with it I've really figured out how to get it to do exactly what I want. Learning new software right now and trying to get the laser to work with it would really set me back.

Feed me as much information as you can and I will do my best to help you diagnose the problem.

Thanks. I hope this gives you a better idea of what it's doing.

[zax15uk]

Mike,

Your detailed response helps, especially the information that it works ok on startup and moves to the home switches correctly.

That's good news as it means the motor drivers are 'stepping' ok and aren't damaged.

It does sound possible you had a grounding problem and have caused some damage to the interface board, have you tried contacting Ray or Terry at Scottware / Rabbit USA?

When you talk about the 'buttons' are you referring to the controls in Newlydraw? If so, I would highly recommend replacing the PC-Laser cable.

Zax.