Electrical Panel & Router Wiring Diagrams

[Santa Fe Al]

Hi All,

I am in the process of designing/building a *NEW* Electrical panel for my DIY router. I'm using a Mid-tower computer case with a DIY aluminum front (actually side panel) for all my switches, fuses, digital gauges, Hobbs meters, etc.

First off, and most importantly, the diagrams were drawn with the intent of me understanding them and not representing true schematics. Hence the label on the attached files. (With pictures.....)

I do realize I'm in overkill mode for readouts and fusing. Probably a few other things too. Every fuse, whether AC or DC has LED's (Red / Green - bipolar) to tell me the circuit is OK or the fuse is blown.

The driver fuses, from the Stepper power supply, have diodes in case of power loss, or blown fuse, to prevent damaging the drives. I hope.

I am using Gecko 251's (thanks for the diagram Thinkoutsidethebox) and have ENABLE switches hooked to each along with the E-Stop switch. In this way, I can disable any axis and still use the remaining ones. If E-Stop is hit, all axis' are disabled along with Mach3.

Hopefully, this will work OK and I won't have to power down the Power supply during an E-stop. This should also stop the Router/Spindle because of the SSR, which is Mach3 controlled.

Just to be safe, all G251's are heat sink mounted and there are two temperature controlled fans (one pulling air into the box and one blowing it out) mounted in the electrical box. The G251's heat sink is in line between the 2 fans.

Note: I am only going to use 3 axis, but decided to be ready in case I choose to use a 4th axis at a later time.

The SSR's are also heat sink mounted. This probably won't be necessary, if my current draw calculations are correct. However, I thought I should heat sink mount them anyway. I had the heat sink available. Why take a chance.?!

The Electrical box isn't finished yet and pictures will have to follow at a later date. Only the front view drawing of the Electrical box is included. All connectors to the outside world will be mounted on the left side of the box. The screw-on connectors will be for Steppers and limit/home switches. The plug-in connectors will be for AC (in and out). - The silver paint ran and i have to redo the panel face - What a PITA.

I hope my diagrams are readable. For some reason, when I converted my dft drawings to PDF format, some of the lines are thicker than they should be. They are all the same line width in the drawings. Anyway, the lines around the LEDs are supposed to be dotted enclosure lines and not part of the wiring. Also, some of my diodes are goofy looking.

All fuse/diode circuity, 120 VAC and 5, 12 & 28 VDC was bread-boarded to verify correct component choices (resistor values, diode type and LED type). I'd hate to build on faith and find out I screwed up.

As the Electrical box is being filled with components, temporary wiring is being used to verify that everything is working correctly up to that point. This is being done as systematically as possible, keeping each test procedure isolated from the other, tested and untested, components.

Also, as the tests are being made, records are being kept pertaining to readings of volts and amps. I'm also using my scope to verify there isn't any interference from other sources. This is also recorded as good, bad, acceptable and peak readings.

Then, I intend to begin combining components and doing the testing all over again. In order to verify that everything is still OK.

I'm posting this information in hopes that someone(s) will give it a thorough checkout and point out any flaws which may be present. Any and all comments will be accepted and hugely appreciated.

Any contributing ideas will also be hugely accepted. If there is a better way of doing what has been diagrammed, I'm all eyes and ears.

Sorry about the long-winded post, but I wanted to give as much information as I could think of, without all the fine details which are in the diagrams.

I finally ran out of things to say, for now.

Thanks to the Zone and all the members who have been of assistance to me from time to time. Hopefully, you guys/gals can donate some more of your time and comments/opinions towards this adventure of mine.

Al

PS - I just saw that the Limit/Homing switches wiring is incomplete. That was drawn before I read that Limit switches should be NC. Jumper wires will be added at the terminal blocks.

[audioandy1762]

Hi Al

Well to say I'm impressed is an under statement, your system looks very professional and I look forward to seeing the finished machine up and running.

Don't forget plenty of photo's when you start building

[Santa Fe Al]

Originally Posted by audioandy1762 Hi Al Well to say I'm impressed is an under statement, your system looks very professional and I look forward to seeing the finished machine up and running.

Hi audioandy1762,

Thanks for the comment. It is really appreciated. I hope you are right about my design.

I'm jumping back into the "fire of electronics" with both feet. This is about one year of reading on the Zone and much web browsing. It has been tooooo long since I did any electronic work.

I'm hoping someone(s) will dig into my drawings and find any mistakes I may have made before I actually do the permanent wiring.

Al

[Santa Fe Al]

Hi All,

I've had to stop working on my electrical cabinet for a day or two, while I rewire part of the second floor of the house.

While changing out an outlet upstairs, I found some knob & tube wiring. That's a NO-NO in my book. The previous owners had stated that the oldest wiring was done in the 70's. NOT TRUE !!!!

Just a slight case of misrepresentation. Since some wiring had been updated, what's a little embellishment amongst friends.

I've had the house, 1895 model Victorian, since 1995. I guess it ain't all that bad only having to replace some of the wiring. This will be the last of the rewiring/repair for some time to come, I hope.

I'll be getting back to this in a day or two and I'll enclose a picture of the inside of the electrical box, as it is now. It isn't internally complete yet and some more populating of components is required.

Thanks for your interest and any comments you may have about my electrical cabinet, the wiring diagram and the layout. Both good and negative. Hopefully some of your comments will make my unsureness more palatable.

Al

[Al_The_Man]

I have never seen so many status LED's
Did you consider Neon type indicators for the High voltage 120v etc? There is the 3/8" round appliance type. They are fairly cheap.
I did not seem to find a Hardware wired structured E-stop circuit?
Good luck with the Knob and Tube!. Not many left who know what that is.
Al.

[Santa Fe Al]

Originally Posted by Al_The_Man I have never seen so many status LED's Did you consider Neon type indicators for the High voltage 120v etc? There is the 3/8" round appliance type. They are fairly cheap. I did not seem to find a Hardware wired structured E-stop circuit? Good luck with the Knob and Tube!. Not many left who know what that is. Al.

Hello Al,

I had thought of the neon indicators for the AC, but found a circuit by a guy in the UK for 220 volts and decided to use LEDs, after some modification.

As for the E-stops, I used micro switches in the diagrams instead of regular E-stop diagram. They will be wired into the appropriate connections on the BOB when I wire it up.

I see that the diagram(s) is/are confusing in this matter. Thanks for bringing it up. I'll work at making the proper wiring changes before any installation of the actual wire.

If I can, I'll attempt to wire the E-stops to the SSR's also. Does that sound like a good idea?

Al

[bharbour]

Hi Al,
I looked at your schematics. Please don't mistake my comments for not liking your work, this looks like a heck of a project. If we were both sitting at a table looking at the schematics, we would both be laughing and joking as we went.

I think that your power on / fuse blown LEDs on the AC power will have trouble with popping LEDs. The reverse voltage rating on the LEDs that I looked at is low, around 5 - 6Volts. On the negative half cycle of the power line, the LED will not be conducting and since there is no curent to speak of, about 155V will appear in reverse at the peak. I think that re-arranging the wiring with the supply side of the fuse connected to the anode of a diode with a reverse breakdown voltage rating of 200V or more. The 1N4007 you have shown is fine, 1N4004's would be OK too. Connect the cathode of the diode to the anode of the red LED and a 200K 1/4W resistor. Connect the other end of the 200K resistor and the cathode of the red LED to a 2 watt 10K resistor. Connect the other end of the 10K resistor to the load end of the fuse.

For the Green LED, make a similar circuit except connect one end to the load end of the fuse and the other to the AC neutral wire. Don't try to share the 10K 2W resistor. The Panel AC Power green LED should get this treatment as well.

The ordinary diode will block the reverse polarity on the AC line and since very little current will be flowing, the voltage across the 200K resistor will be below the 5 Volts for reverse breakdown on the LEDs.

For your 28 Volt LED's it looks like you will only get about 1/2 a milliamp with those 47K resistors. They may light, but they will probably be pretty dim. Also, I would separate the red and green circuits here too. Instead of tying the red and green LED cathodes together, I would tie the red LED cathode to one end of a 2.7K 1/2W resistor and the other end of the resistor to the load end of the fuse. The silicon diode(s) in series with the red LED can be removed, tying the red LED anode to the supply end of the fuse. Tie the anode of the green LED to the load end of the fuse. Swap the 47K resistor for a 2.7K 1/2W resistor.

Do the same thing for the 5V LEDs except use a 330 ohm 1/4W resistor.

And he same thing on the 12V LEDs and use a 1K 1/4W resistor .

For the fan, I think I would change the switch to be temp controlled / always on. Being able to turn off the fans seems like a bad thing to me.

I did not see a fuse on the outlet fed directly from the AC Panel power plug. Since there is a switch and an ammeter shunt on that circuit, a fuse would probably be a good thing.

I am not clear on the E-Stop wiring. You really want the spindle to be switched on the E-Stop, maybe the breakout board will take care of that?

If my explanations are not clear, I can sketch and scan something.

Good Luck,
BobH

[Al_The_Man]

Generally for my taste, I tend to find the overall layout a bit busy.
There seems to be an over abundance of monitoring. Which is nice, but usually unnecessary.
For the E-stop, you need to set up a hardwired circuit that takes care of all power for all the outputs in one fell swoop. i.e. E-stop control relay.
The software E-stop and any watchdog timer or charge pump, as it may be called, can be part of the E-stop string, but not the principle initiator of an E-stop.
The controller can be advised of this external E-stop via the E-stop input.
Al.

[Santa Fe Al]

Originally Posted by bharbour Hi Al, I looked at your schematics. Please don't mistake my comments for not liking your work, this looks like a heck of a project. If we were both sitting at a table looking at the schematics, we would both be laughing and joking as we went. I think that your power on / fuse blown LEDs on the AC power will have trouble with popping LEDs. The reverse voltage rating on the LEDs that I looked at is low, around 5 - 6Volts. On the negative half cycle of the power line, the LED will not be conducting and since there is no curent to speak of, about 155V will appear in reverse at the peak. I think that re-arranging the wiring with the supply side of the fuse connected to the anode of a diode with a reverse breakdown voltage rating of 200V or more. The 1N4007 you have shown is fine, 1N4004's would be OK too. Connect the cathode of the diode to the anode of the red LED and a 200K 1/4W resistor. Connect the other end of the 200K resistor and the cathode of the red LED to a 2 watt 10K resistor. Connect the other end of the 10K resistor to the load end of the fuse. For the Green LED, make a similar circuit except connect one end to the load end of the fuse and the other to the AC neutral wire. Don't try to share the 10K 2W resistor. The Panel AC Power green LED should get this treatment as well. The ordinary diode will block the reverse polarity on the AC line and since very little current will be flowing, the voltage across the 200K resistor will be below the 5 Volts for reverse breakdown on the LEDs. For your 28 Volt LED's it looks like you will only get about 1/2 a milliamp with those 47K resistors. They may light, but they will probably be pretty dim. Also, I would separate the red and green circuits here too. Instead of tying the red and green LED cathodes together, I would tie the red LED cathode to one end of a 2.7K 1/2W resistor and the other end of the resistor to the load end of the fuse. The silicon diode(s) in series with the red LED can be removed, tying the red LED anode to the supply end of the fuse. Tie the anode of the green LED to the load end of the fuse. Swap the 47K resistor for a 2.7K 1/2W resistor. Do the same thing for the 5V LEDs except use a 330 ohm 1/4W resistor. And he same thing on the 12V LEDs and use a 1K 1/4W resistor . For the fan, I think I would change the switch to be temp controlled / always on. Being able to turn off the fans seems like a bad thing to me. I did not see a fuse on the outlet fed directly from the AC Panel power plug. Since there is a switch and an ammeter shunt on that circuit, a fuse would probably be a good thing. I am not clear on the E-Stop wiring. You really want the spindle to be switched on the E-Stop, maybe the breakout board will take care of that? If my explanations are not clear, I can sketch and scan something. Good Luck, BobH

Hi Bob,

Thanks for that fabulous input. Figured I'd get a big laugh or two about my diagrams. I have to start somewhere and this was it. We'll share a beer someday and laugh about it if we ever meet.

I know the schematic isn't drawn correctly, but it is the best I know how to do at this time. I still need pictures for me to relate to what I am doing and why.

Although everything worked as intended when I bread-boarded it, your information sure makes sense. However, as I've stated before, I'm just getting back into electronics and if you could show me a diagram for the blown/OK fuse indicators, I sure would appreciate it. I didn't know that this even worked before I found the circuit on the internet. That's why I had considered the neon indicators to start with.

As for the resistors, I'll make the changes as soon as I finish this upstairs knob & tube rewiring project in a day or two.

In reference to the spindle and other circuits, after reading this information from you and Al, I'm going to try and find a multi-pole continuous duty relay which will release when the E-Stop is hit. Either that or multiple diodes for circuit isolation purposes from the E-Stop switch.

Referencing the fan issue, I thought it would be cool to have automatic fans. However, I do see the wisdom of them being on all the time when power is on. It will save me etching PC boards for the temperature controls and maybe having a unwanted meltdown of my little Geckos. Don't want to hurt them.

I had not considered the fusing of the AC line output connector. I had figured the circuit breaker at the main panel would take care of that. Perhaps, I should just leave the extra outlet out of the equation. I really don't have a need for it at this time. Or any time in the future. Just thought that it might come in handy for something else.

Thanks again for your help. I really appreciate your efforts in helping me.

Al

[Santa Fe Al]

Originally Posted by Al_The_Man Generally for my taste, I tend to find the overall layout a bit busy. There seems to be an over abundance of monitoring. Which is nice, but usually unnecessary. For the E-stop, you need to set up a hardwired circuit that takes care of all power for all the outputs in one fell swoop. i.e. E-stop control relay. The software E-stop and any watchdog timer or charge pump, as it may be called, can be part of the E-stop string, but not the principle initiator of an E-stop. The controller can be advised of this external E-stop via the E-stop input. Al.

Hi Al,

Being an old Navy Radarman (Operations Specialist now-a-days), I learned to monitor everything I could. It was necessary to multi-task, as a supervisor. I guess I never broke the habit. Even so, I still want to know what my system is doing under any and all conditions. Unfortunately, you are correct about being busy.

I've always kept records of what and how something is doing. Once the standard has been set, I can begin to relax until something seems out of the ordinary. This is all in hopes of preventing a major problem before it becomes a disaster and major repair/replacement issue.

I assume, I'll only be monitoring the gauges, etc, at startup once I get used to how things work. Just like preflight before takeoff, in an attempt to know everything is OK and checks out. " Overkill and over justification "

Just the same, I'm hoping to keep all the indicators as they are. Especially the blown fuse LEDs. I attempted to purchase the fuse holders that lit up if the fuse blew. They were way to expensive for my taste.

In reference to your E-stop idea, I like it and as mentioned to bharbour, I'd like to keep all circuits isolated from each other with a multi-pole relay or isolation diodes.

Thanks again for your input. The mental wheels are turning and burning.

Al

[bharbour]

Hi Al,
Here is a sketch with a couple of different configurations on the LEDs. The top pair are fot eh AC power line LEDs and the bottom pair are for the DC power LEDS. One circuit is for using separate red and green leds, the other is using the combined red/green LEDS like you had drawn. The combined led version is very similar to what you had drawn but got a couple of diodes added and a couple of resistors added.

The circuits with 3 diodes in a string could be messed with, they might work with two. I don't think that they will work with only one diode in place of the three I drew.

The purpose of the high value resistors that I added are to keep the reverse voltage across the LED's down. With the silicon diodes blocking the reverse current, down to leackage current levels (pico amps or so) these resistors prevent the LEDs from seeing any appreceable reverse voltage.

It is not impossible that you could find LED's that would withstand the 120V line as reverse voltage and the circuit would work fine as you drew it, but the LEDs I have messed with and the ones I looked up just to confirm my recollection would not.

On the diodes, you have 1N4007's listed. If you have not already bought them, 1N4004's are a little cheaper. Either will work.

The automatic fan is fine, I just would not include a switch that could disable the fans entirely. That is why I was suggesting changing the switch from off/auto to always on/auto.

Good Luck,
Bob

[Santa Fe Al]

Originally Posted by bharbour Hi Al, Here is a sketch with a couple of different configurations on the LEDs. The top pair are fot eh AC power line LEDs and the bottom pair are for the DC power LEDS. One circuit is for using separate red and green leds, the other is using the combined red/green LEDS like you had drawn. The combined led version is very similar to what you had drawn but got a couple of diodes added and a couple of resistors added. The circuits with 3 diodes in a string could be messed with, they might work with two. I don't think that they will work with only one diode in place of the three I drew. The purpose of the high value resistors that I added are to keep the reverse voltage across the LED's down. With the silicon diodes blocking the reverse current, down to leackage current levels (pico amps or so) these resistors prevent the LEDs from seeing any appreceable reverse voltage. It is not impossible that you could find LED's that would withstand the 120V line as reverse voltage and the circuit would work fine as you drew it, but the LEDs I have messed with and the ones I looked up just to confirm my recollection would not. On the diodes, you have 1N4007's listed. If you have not already bought them, 1N4004's are a little cheaper. Either will work. The automatic fan is fine, I just would not include a switch that could disable the fans entirely. That is why I was suggesting changing the switch from off/auto to always on/auto. Good Luck, Bob

Thanks Bob,

Comparing your LED circuits to mine, I realized mine were functional but weak. I will be bread-boarding your circuits and in the end hope nothing blows if a wire, etc, should break or disconnect.

I'll be using the bipolar version, as I already have my panel drilled for them.

From not even knowing that LEDs could be used with AC to this, is a big leap forward for me. My edufication (GWH) has begun in earnest.

Guys like you and Al make life workable for a guy who hasn't played with electronics since the 80's.

This sort of thing is exactly what I need.

Again, thanks,

Al