The course to the standardization in PCB industry

[zjanetblaz]

The PCB industry is nonstandard which greatly blocked the development of PCB industry. The process of standardization is a job for all PCB people.

What's your opinion about it?
Do you think it is necessary to process the standardization of PCB industry?
If yes, how?

[neilw20]

Each manufacturer seems to have a 'standard' size panel, and they are all different.
MY PCB editor is not standard as I wrote it to suit my purposes. I have been using it for years, 32 layers, 32 bit, but I still need win98 because XP does not support VESA standard cards. I suppose I have to learn directx eventually, time permitting. At least my editor can generate G-code, which is more than others can.

[vger]

Next thing you know they will start replacing most of the copper in PCB's with fiber-optic... then what do we do

[neilw20]

Stop making them at home I suppose, once we can no longer get the material, but if if you make/buy a heated press you can make your own material. I am looking at finding a press! Multilayer at home!

[zjanetblaz]

Originally Posted by neilw20 Each manufacturer seems to have a 'standard' size panel, and they are all different. MY PCB editor is not standard as I wrote it to suit my purposes. I have been using it for years, 32 layers, 32 bit, but I still need win98 because XP does not support VESA standard cards. I suppose I have to learn directx eventually, time permitting. At least my editor can generate G-code, which is more than others can.

yes, people have their own standards. Also ,there are many different Gerber format. sometimes ,there may be misundsrstanding between different people.Then ,why not establish a standard?
I think it is quite necessary.
how do you think about it?
Maybe your own “standard" can be changed. Can you accept it if there is a standard?

[jemmyell]

Originally Posted by neilw20 Stop making them at home I suppose, once we can no longer get the material, but if if you make/buy a heated press you can make your own material. I am looking at finding a press! Multilayer at home!

Hi Neil,

I'll bet you could make 4 layer boards with a shop made press. Just use an etched inner layer that has power and ground planes and separate lamiantes for outer layers. Then use a car jack to supply compression to a stand with four posts made from water pipe. Use silicone heating blankets for heaters.

You would need to find a local source for the laminates and pre-preg used, but MAYBE you could even low pressure laminate with fiberglass cloth and a wet layup.

http://hc.heatcon.com/products.php?cat=15

-James

[neilw20]

The pressing precision I need requires at least 50mm platens with many KW of heat for precision pre-preg pressing only 0.5mm thick, thermally and pressure controlled, with water cooled end of process. Thanks for the link. I think the pressure I need would kill kill the heaters shown.

[jemmyell]

Originally Posted by neilw20 The pressing precision I need requires at least 50mm platens with many KW of heat for precision pre-preg pressing only 0.5mm thick, thermally and pressure controlled, with water cooled end of process. Thanks for the link. I think the pressure I need would kill kill the heaters shown.

Hi Neil,

Ok, I was heavily involved in this industry in my 20's (30 some years ago). We used large hydraulic steam presses. I understand that soem prototype houses use much lower pressures these days, using vacuum frames in ovens.

-James

[martinw]

Dear all,

I chucked out all my "home brew" pcb kit a while ago after I discovered this outfit for prototype and small batch production...

http://www.pcbtrain.co.uk/

They do any size panel up to about 550mm by 400mm, and up to six layers. What they do is take all sizes of boards from different customers and bundle them together for a single production panel. You pay more for a fast delivery than a slow one. You get component ident layers and solder resists as standard. BTW, there are rumoured to be people elsewhere in Eastern Europe who do the same for about half the price.

IMVVHO, DIY PCB has become financially redundant. Having said that, it is a whole lot of fun.

Best wishes,

Martin

[neilw20]

My problem is I need 75 panels 300 x 450 per month and getting quality local suppliers reliably delivering on time is a headache. When you want it done right DIY becomes a serious option.

[martinw]

Originally Posted by neilw20 My problem is I need 75 panels 300 x 450 per month and getting quality local suppliers reliably delivering on time is a headache. When you want it done right DIY becomes a serious option.

Dear neilw20,

I did not realise that you wanted volume production, so I apologise for my advice. However, for smaller users, the type of outfit I suggested are pretty useful. They will profile the board edge to any level of complexity that you wish for no extra charge as well as all the other stuff.

BTW, I am not on commission....(wish I was)

Best wishes,

Martin

[martinw]

Originally Posted by zjanetblaz The PCB industry is nonstandard which greatly blocked the development of PCB industry. The process of standardization is a job for all PCB people. What's your opinion about it? Do you think it is necessary to process the standardization of PCB industry? If yes, how?

Dear zjanetblaz,

Almost all pcb layout software have options for formatting Gerber and drill files in different ways at the final output stage, so that the files are compatible with the photo plotters etc at the manufacturers. All the plotters etc may use slightly different protocols, but by and large, even the least expensive layout packages can cope fairly well with any type of production machinery

It is always a good idea to phone the pcb manufacturer, talk to the production manager, and ask him how he would like the file format to be output while you have your pcb layout software on screen in front of you. He will talk you through the boxes to tick.

As regards standardisation, my personal opinion is that the USA came up with modern electronics, and most chips etc are based on the inch system when it comes to dimensions. That is just fine with me. I have had a whole load of problems when trying to mix metric and imperial components, not least because you have to keep switching between metric and imperial grids when laying out the artwork. That has caused me a lots of problems over the years.

I never thought I would say this, but doing away with metric pitch components would be a huge help.

Best wishes,

Martin