Upgrading control hardware - Emco

[eDudlik]

I just purchased a pair of Emco machines for use in my home workshop, a 3rd generation F1 Mill and a Compact5 lathe with tool changer. To facilitate a more streamlined CAD/CAM process, I'd like to upgrade the rather antiquated controls to something more modern. I found one company (WelSoft) that makes preassembled upgrade kits specifically for Emco machines, but the systems look overpriced and unimpressive, so I think it's the DIY route for me.

Seeing as both machines are already equipped with CNC controls, what all do I need to upgrade? Is it recommended that I replace/upgrade the stepper motors, or can I simply buy a controller board/box and wire it in? I don't want to cut corners, but if something isn't necessary/recommended, I'd prefer to save the time and money. Basically, I just want to do this once, and do it right.

Thanks in advance.

-- Edward Dudlik III

[ESjaavik]

I'm in a similar situation, just that I have only the lathe. I was not impressed by Welsoft either.

I am somewhat unsure if changing the steppers will be necessary. I think I would try the ones that are there for starters. A modern chopping and microstepping driver can handle them as well as more modern motors. Using the existing ones will allow you to do your conversion without disabling the machine(s). Just unplug them from the current electronics and hook them up to your new one.

[Swede]

Hi Edward, welcome to the "Zone". There are a large number of systems which will do just fine. If it were up to me, I'd consider keeping the iron, removing the steppers, and replacing them with comparably-sized servo motors. Close the loop, get plenty of speed, power, and accuracy. The large number of '80's vintage machines, from Emco up to Bridgeport, with old/slow controls, is a real boon to hobbyists because you can often pick them up for a song and refit them with modern controls and software.

I like Flashcut. Other guys like Mach 2/3, OneCNC, they're all good. Try some of the forums here for these systems, there's plenty of advise available.

Again, if you want a quality unit and only want to do it once, it may pay to go for the servos. Just one opinion! Good luck.

[eDudlik]

If it were up to me, I'd consider keeping the iron, removing the steppers, and replacing them with comparably-sized servo motors. Close the loop, get plenty of speed, power, and accuracy.

Is it possible to use a closed-loop controller with normal stepper motors? I would ultimately like to go with servo gear, but it is considerably more expensive than open-loop equipment. If I can just buy the closed-loop controller now and switch to servos later, that would be ideal.

[balsaman]

Not that I know of.

Eric

[eDudlik]

Not that I know of.

I figured as much, but it was worth asking.

Is anyone here familiar with the 4UAPC Chopper Board kits sold by HobbyCNC.com? At only $79 for a 3-axis board, I wouldn't feel so bad about putting off the closed loop conversion.

[balsaman]

It's a great board.

Eric

[ESjaavik]

@eDudlik:
You can drive servo motors with a stepper controller like Mach2 that outputs step/dir signals. You must then change motors and drive electronics. And make sure you get servo drives that accept step/dir inputs. A lot of the industrial drives do. But most of them are way too big for that machine. The only I know that is fairly small are the WorldServo drives. But there are probably others I don't know about.

[h_2_o]

for the compact5 look here as well, a lot of good info http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/grou...compact5users/ i have one myself and so far dont mind it. a guy a while back wrote an excel spreadsheet that makes it much much easier to write g-code with. then you just transfer it over to the emco and go. let me know if you are interested in the spreadsheet.

[ESjaavik]

let me know if you are interested in the spreadsheet.

I'm interested. Until I can get around to install a new controller it's a pretty time consuming task to enter code.

Also since I don't have the manual, several of the codes I cannot get to work as expected.

[eDudlik]

Also since I don't have the manual, several of the codes I cannot get to work as expected.

I'd like a copy of the spreadsheet, too. If you need any info from the manuals, I have a stack of them here.

[ESjaavik]

@eDudlik:

What I would like to have is the explanation of the G-codes as used in Emco C5CNC.
Today I've been fighting the G02/G03, and ended up doing one of the arcs as segments. And then again I had to take umpteen extra passes to get rid of the rings that occurs on each line break as it stops for a fraction of a second.

Another thing I have not figured out is why I have to home it before every run. My mill (running EMC) remembers where it is. So if the program stops (or breaks) at any place, it will always start at the same place. But C5 will assume X=0, Y=0 at the point it is when the program starts.

I'm not using the machine much because of all the strange peculiarities. And I don't yet want to upgrade it because I don't know what control program to use.

- First choice would be EMC, but it's not ready for lathe work yet. It works OK on my mill. And it's capable of running different hardware interfaces.
- TurboCNC: I'm not sure if it will be just another round of trouble. But I may try it. It seems pretty simple to do that. With a realtime update of the DRO, it would clearly be my second choice.
- Mach2/Mach3: I see lathe mentioned, but no documentation. So it is probably not ready for lathe either. And the display is too crowded, more like a game than a MMI.
- PCdreh: Looks like turbocnc with a rudimentary path editor and backplot.
- WelSoft: I cannot really see that this is an upgrade other than getting rid of the cassete player.
- Others: I didn't really find some that is adaptable enough.

Anyway I'll not get rid of it. The mechanics is amazingly precise and well made for such a tiny machine. And when it can be bought used for less than a rattling asian non-CNC import it is the perfect choice in this price category. The only things I did was to flip the plastic slide rest on the rear side, clean and lube the ballscrews. And it's like new.

I have the program to transfer to/from the PC (DOS program), so the fact I did not get the cassette working is not a problem.

Let's keep in contact. I will upgrade it, it just have to gain some priority. The first one of us doing it should share experiences with the other.