Cabinet & Casework Guys! Software Help

[bce086]

Hey guys,

I am starting to look into CNC routers and we have almost decided on a machine. We are looking at a middle sized MultiCAM router. The router will be used to create cabinets and casework, with occasional carvings to make our work unique. We are by no means an industrial shop, but could be considered as a small - mid size shop that do mostly custom orders.

My question for you experienced guys in the same field is: What software are you using? What are in your mind the 3-5 most popular softwares for users like me? Do I need a CAD program and a CAM program? Is there one that satisfies both? Do i need 2D, 2.5D or 3D?

I've looked into a couple programs such as Cabinet Pro, Cabinet Parts Pro, Auto CAD, Enroute Pro 3... but it is hard to judge them by only getting information from their websites.

Which is the most popular in the industry? Which cabinet designed program is the most user friendly? The most complete / capable? Why are people using this software?

Any information regarding cabinet software will be appreciated. If someone is very well versed in a cabinet program feel free to PM me as well.

Thanks in advance!

[ger21]

Sorry for not getting back to you yesterday.

You want to do carving. Where will you get the designs from? Will you do them yourself, or purchase 3D models? If you want to do your own, look at Vectric's Aspire. In addition to 3D modeling and carving, it also does nesting, and is a full featured 2.5D CAM package. It'll cut your cabinet parts, but you'll need another package to design in and export from. And, you won't find any easier to use CAM software than Vectric's, and their support is top notch.

There aren't many cabinet guys here to answer your question, and if there were, you'd have a hard time finding anyone who knows a lot about more than one package. Cabinet software is specialized, and can have a fairly steep learning curve. Few people have spent several thousand dollars on more than one package. Unless they feel they got ripped off and moved to another package.

Do you need both a CAD and CAM package? Depends on the package. Some will do everything for you. Model, render, cutlist, and export g-code to machine. Some will only export cutlists and/or .dxf files of parts. For these, you'll need a CAM package. There are specialized packages that are designed to work specifically with cabinet packages. CadCode is one of these. We use it to create our g-code and create barcoded labels for our parts.

Do you need 3D. Typically, imo, you'd only need it to show to your customers. Although some cabinet packages work exclusively in 3D. Most gcode for cabinet parts is created from 2D .dxf files. Virtually all cabinet packages export their files in 2D .dxf format.

I've been in the commercial cabinet industry for 15 years, the last ten doing cnc programming. I have no idea what's the most popular, or the most user friendly. It really doesn't matter. All that matters is that you find one that does what you want. I really don't think that any will be really user friendly. Depends a bit on your computer skills. Some have a fairly steep learning curve. Most of the more expensive ones require a few days of training, and may take a year or more to truly master. These ones tend to be the most powerful.

I've never looked at it, but I think I'd download the free Cabinet Parts Pro and learn how to use it. It's awfully hard to beat the $250 cost of the Pro Version, if you find that it does what you need.

Basically, the same goes for any package. Download demos, and learn how they work. Higher end stuff will have salesmen come to your shop and give demos. Be very leary of software salesmen. Make sure the software will do what they say it will, and get it in writing when you purchase. I just don't trust them too much. But make sure you understand what they're showing you, and make them take the time to explain it if you need them too. The most important thing is to make an informed decision, especially when you get in to the more expensive stuff.

What kind of volume do you do? Are all your cabinets constructed the same, or do you use a lot of different methods. A lot of packages will lock you into a specific assembly method.

If you have more questions, feel free to ask, and I'll help you out if i can.

[bce086]

No need for appologies, you've been a huge help to me already!

As for the type of work, it is mostly custom, so either I would be drawing them up, or a customer would come with ideas we would work on together.
As for the carvings, it would be nice to have both. If there is something a customer wants specifically, we obviously dont want to tell them, "we cant do that".

It seems like a CAD program that you can design in, as well as create G-codes, and everything else is more practical both in ease of use and for a budget. Is this true? It also seems like I should have the 3D capabilities.

Do these softwares seem to satisfy those needs?:
Aspire - $2k
Cabinet Parts Pro - $3.6k - $10k
CadCode -$?
What else?

You say you've been using CadCode? How do you like that? What do you dislike about it and are there any constraints?

I just want to make sure I have a decent understanding of the softwares in the same class, and what the pluses and minuses are of each before making the jump. I'd hate to decide on one and then realize there was something that is better out there!

[ger21]

I really don't like to recommend specific software to people. Mainly because what I would use would probably not be the best choice for you.

The only one I feel comfortable recommending is Aspire. Best bang for the buck for 3D carving. But, download the demo and learn how to use and make sure it'll work for you before you just send them the money.

As for the cabinets, I don't know what to tell you. Cabinet Parts Pro is only $250. Again, download the free version, learn it, and see if it'll work for you. I have no idea if it will.

I know of a lot of software packages for the cabinet industry. However, I've not used any of them, so don't know how to give good advice. You mentioned a budget of 15K, but that's a big number, and you probably don't need to spend anywhere near that.

Microvellum looks like a nice product, but I'm not sure of the price. One downside (for you) is that it runs in AutoCAD. 1) I get the impression you've not used a CAD program, let alone AutoCAD. So that leaves a couple issues. You have the steep learning curve of learning AutoCAD and Microvellum at the same time. A lack of AutoCAD skills will hamper your learning of Microvellum. 2) You need to buy both AutoCAD and Microvellum. AutoCAD is $4K by itself, so it's a lot of money.

Cabinetvision might work well for you, but the full manufacturing version is quite expensive, and is probably more than you need.

CadCode's QuickCAM looks like a nice package, but again, it runs in AutoCAD.

Keep in mind that I've not used these packages, just throwing out some options.

We use an older version (10 years) of Cadcode, and it's used strictly for labeling, barcoding, and g-code generation. No cabinet design at all.

You might want to contact member Cabnet636. I think his business may be similar to yours. He took the CNC plunge about a year ago, and could probably give you some good advise.

My main advise is to do a lot of research, and don't rush into any purchases. Try a lot of demos, and try to learn how the process works and what you'll need. Being able to make an informed decision will save you a lot of time and money in the long run.

[cabnet636]

i use cabinetpartspro, aspire for manufacturing.

i design in cabnet ware and purchased it in 97 i have tens of thousands in the cw and machine with a 250,00 cpp

jim

[bce086]

I've taken a look at Cabinetvision and they have a bunch of different versions available:

Solid Ultimate
Solid Advanced
Solid Essential
Solid Standard

What are the different prices on these? Ger21 when you mentioned cabinetvision, was there one of these you thought would accomplish nested parts, 3D printouts, labels printouts, carving & millwork, custom cabinet manipulation...

Also, a program where you can design the cabinet, and then that same program can create the toolpaths and send the design to the cnc to be cut is essential.

Other programs I've looked at since our last talk:

Cabinet Pro
Cabinet Parts Pro
Cabinet Solutions
Cabinet Vision
KCDw
Aspire 2

[ger21]

Not familiar with the current Cabinet Vision lineup, but you may need the top of the line package to do what you want. Best to call a salesman.

Give CadCode a call and see what they have to offer. Tell them what you want to do, and see what they recommend. The CadCode guys are cabinet guys, and not your typical software company. They started out because they were a cabinet shop and couldn't find software to do what they wanted, so they wrote their own.

[Tony the Ferret]

HI, not sure if i should take offence at the comment " Be very leary of software salesmen. Make sure the software will do what they say it will, and get it in writing when you purchase. I just don't trust them too much".

I am sure it was made in fun, but you will find that in the UK at least we salesmen are Honest and knowlegable about our own products. We have to know the ups and downs of the competition. Ok, we may be quick to tell you the downside of "a" product but not tell you the good bits, but that is life.

The salesman is there to build up the relationship and make sure you have a good solution for your needs, and hopefully you will recommend it and even buy from him again.
Tony

[blmartech]

" Be very leary of software salesmen. Make sure the software will do what they say it will, and get it in writing when you purchase. I just don't trust them too much" I wouldnt be offended by that, well at least here in the usa anyway, because here salesmen lie and do what it takes to get your money and then they are gone, they make promises of how easy software is and then they cant even use it themselves, That trick was what got the guys from planit solutions to stop comming by, I got tired of him telling us how easy the software is to use, so I told the salesman if its so easy let me see you do a cabinet from start to finish and give me a good finished product, he said "Im not trained to use the software" my response was you just told me how easy it is and how anyone can do it. He hasnt been back since. Now on to microvellum, We have been happily using enroute up until the salesman came in and talked my employer into buying microvellum (watch out for these guys, they take your money and run).... These guys dont answer support emails, going on 2 weeks now just waiting for a response, Last time we had to call after emails went unaswered, this time Im just going to see how long it takes them to actually respond back, for $2000 a year they will support their software they sell you for $30,000. Ive got better tech support from a cheap linksys router that was out of warranty by 2 years for free, and that router didnt cost anywhere near $30,000.

[cabnet636]

i have since purchased cv 2012 and have been impressed with how they have handled my learning curve, they have opened the support forum for all,, with out charging for it,, microvellum would have never been a consideration

[blmartech]

I agree, my choice would have been cabinet vision as well, but these salesman came and talked to my employer while i wasnt there and somehow talked them into buying microvellum. so now im stuck using it, the crazy thing about closing a forum is it only hurts their product, charging for forum access is ridiculous, especially since almost all the help there comes from the community of users. Then they charged my employer to fly here and set the software up for us, they did a half @ss job and left, setup was never completed, and the labeling software cd wasnt even taken out of its case, so now we can half way run a job, all the labels for a whole sheet of goods gets printed on 1 small label instead of a label per part, cabinet parts get placed at random on the workspace, section detail markers show up on the screen but not on the printout, library's are just completely wrong (want a laugh, use the software to place a kick on an elevation and the front kickplate ends up being 4 inches off the floor and inside a cabinet). And to top it off they dont respond to emails when you have issues, and thats not a random occurence I have sent them 3 emails and the only one time I got answered was after calling a sales rep and telling them no one will answer the emails. Im not trying to make them sound awful but these have been my experiences so far. I also posted on wood web but they deleted my post, guess they cant have people saying anything bad about their advertisers.

[MillworkMike]

Hello bce086....

I've used Cabinet Vision and AlphaCam daily for almost six years.... If you would like more info on either PM me and I will do my best to help!