DesignCAD + MeshCAM or BobCAD-CAM 17?

[chozo]

I'm trying to decide between these these two combinations on a budget:

$300 range
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DesignCAD + MeshCAM or
BobCAD-CAM 17?

If I got BobCAD-CAM 17, are there any bugs/updates I should know about?

Anyone here actually ever used DesignCAD? I downloaded a trial, and it seems decent so far.

Thanks for any input.

[HuFlungDung]

If you need CAM output in the form of gcode, I don't think DesignCad will do much for you, but I could be mistaken. Its been years since I ran Designcad (DOS) so I'd check into this aspect carefully.

I'm not sure if MeshCAM is intended for rudimentary "2.5d" machining of profiles and such, but rather it might be more for 3d-ish artwork.

Bobcad17 will give you a means to create gcode for simpler machining requirements, in 2d profiles and simple 3d pocketing.

[chozo]

DesignCAD 3d is what I meant. It can output in dxf format, also I'm not sure how well.

[robgrz]

It depends on what you're looking to make. MeshCAM is only for 3d work so if you're looking for 2d or 2.5d work then another program might be better. You should look at SheetCam at http://www.sheetcam.com . It's a 2d program that is relatively new and you can get it for free right now. The users seem to really like it and Les, the author, is a nice guy who is looking for feedback to help make it better.

Out of curiosity I tried a demo of the current BobCad, V19 I think. I had never heard much good about it and was curious about it. I found it to be very flakey and was not impressed. Make sure you try BobCAD first to make sure you know what you're getting.

I'm also the developer of MeshCAM, so keep that in mind when you read the opinions above.

Robert

[chozo]

Any recommendations? What's the best CAD program for the money?

HFD: For BobCAD-CAM 17, what did you mean about simple 3d pocketing? Is it limited?

Thanks for your input.

EDIT: Thanks for the advice, Rob.

[High Seas]

Here's a thought, check out the tables and comparisons at:
http://www.desktopcnc.com/cadcam.htm
I'll warn you - there is a heap of info available and you'll need to check the pricing at each site - eg, STLWORK, is listed at 250 USD and its on sale now for $75 - so,you'll have to still shop around some.
If you can find a good CAD program in the price range and then get an CAM program to create a machine path and convert to g-code, and a machine program to run the machine - you're there! MACH2 as amachine program comes in at $150 - there are some DOS based programs out there at nearly - free prices, so its still a bit of a research challenge.
Good luck - Jim

[ger21]

What are you going to be using this for? Commercial use, or home hobby use? What type of parts?

I've used DesignCAD since I think version 3 in Windows 3.1. Although I quit using it about 7 or 8 years ago (use AutoCAD now ), I've always thought DesignCAD was a great deal. It's much easier to learn than TurboCAD. And it's amazingly powerful for the price.

I've never even seen BobCAD, so I won't comment on it. But from what I've heard, research this option very carefully.


Like Robert said, get SheetCAM while it's free, and use it for 2.5D work. Add MeshCAM for 3D stuff for $100, and DesignCAD 3D MAX 15 for $90.

Before you buy DesignCAD, though. If you'll be using it with MeshCAM, make sure it can export models as .stl's, or make sure it's .dxf's are compatible with MeshCAM (.dxf's must contain 3D faces only- if you know what that means).

One last important thing. Don't just go and buy software because someone here (or anywhere) tells you it's the best thing. Always download a demo and make sure it will do what you want, the way you want. I read a lot of stories about people buying software only to have it sit on a shelf because it wouldn't do what they wanted to do, and they had to buy something else.
Do the research, and only spend your money once.

[chozo]

I just finished messing around using a DesignCAD > SheetCAM > Mach2 process.
Now THAT is a cheap trio.

DXF's exported from DesignCAD don't come out right in SheetCAM. The only other option is HPGL .plt files. I tried that, and it seems okay two-dimensionally, but not the height.. I got some premade models to export with some height to them, although other areas of the model weren't accurately converted. I'll blame it on my lack of experience.

I'm also considering buying 3D Canvas. Pro version is only $80, I think, and it has a lot of features.

Anyone know the proper method of exporting DXF files?

ger21: Yeah, it has 3d-faces as an export option, but I can't get MeshCAM to open them up. It always says "0 faces" in the Status window.

Thanks for the help.

[ger21]

Originally Posted by chozo DXF's exported from DesignCAD don't come out right in SheetCAM. The only other option is HPGL .plt files. I tried that, and it seems okay two-dimensionally, but not the height.. I got some premade models to export with some height to them, although other areas of the model weren't accurately converted. I'll blame it on my lack of experience.

Did you do the SheetCAM tutorials? I believe you should be setting the height in SheetCAM.
I just reread your message again, and it sounds like you're trying to use 3D models in SheetCAM?
For SheetCAM use, you shouldn't really be using 3D models, just 2D drawings. SheetCAM does the depth part.

Originally Posted by chozo Anyone know the proper method of exporting DXF files? ger21: Yeah, it has 3d-faces as an export option, but I can't get MeshCAM to open them up. It always says "0 faces" in the Status window. Thanks for the help.

First, I always save as R12 .dxf's if you have that option. It seems to be the most universal type.

Before exporting, you might want to try exploding the model first.

If that doesn't work, try reloading the .dxf and then exploding and re-exporting. Sometimes just reloading the .dxf and re-exporting by itself might work, as importing the .dxf might convert it to the proper format.

Does it export .stl files? STL is the best method for MeshCAM, because the files are much smaller and load into MeshCAM about 10 times faster. And .stl's will ALWAYS work.

[chozo]

Yeah, I tried to use 3d models in SheetCam. I guess I didn't realize it was purely 2d. Even so, it's a good program.

Sadly, DesignCAD 3d doesn't export to .stl. Unless the trial version has that particular option removed....

I just tried exporting to dxf as r12 version, and tried importing from SheetCAM and Mach 2. It appears to be rotated in both programs.

Recommend a sub-$250 3D CAM program? What about DeskCNC?

[HuFlungDung]

Originally Posted by chozo Any recommendations? What's the best CAD program for the money? HFD: For BobCAD-CAM 17, what did you mean about simple 3d pocketing? Is it limited?

Simple 3d pocketing, I would class as simple vertical walls, without continuously changing Z values (that would be the spindle moving up and down to follow contours).

But, a lot depends on your own perserverance and aptitude: Bobcad can create toolpaths out of any wireframe, it is the task of creating the wireframe that can be daunting in complexity. Keep in mind that in Bobcad (or any other 2d entity cad), when you've created some kind of a wireframe model, that you've accomplished very little, because the entire toolpath needs to be offset from the imaginary surfaces of your model. Bobcad17 does not have any kind of surface recognition in it.

This is why users like programs like OneCNC that create toolpaths automatically, based on a surface model. Once you've gone to the trouble to carefully create a surface model, you're practically done in OneCNC, because the toolpathing is set up automatically from your parameter input on the tool you will use. Also, you are not married to that one tool size, the way you would be with an offset wireframe from any 2d cad.

I'd recommend Bobcad (or sheetcam sounds like it might be workable, too) for parts that have to meet actual dimensional criteria. (This is just an opinion based on what "got me by" when I started out machining.) This is where meshes are weak: there is no real integrity to the model after converting it to a mesh. So, if the machined part doesn't have to "fit" something else, then meshcam would likely serve. I have no idea how smart the toolpath output from Meshcam is. If Rob wanted to comment on this, I'd like to hear about what the general principles of toolpathing a mesh really are.

[robgrz]

If you email me the files that wouldn't open in MeshCAM I'll take a look to see if I've got a bug. Although that's a definate possibility, DXF problems in MeshCAM are almost always related to the export settings in the CAD program. If all else fails there is a program called Accutrans, http://www.micromouse.ca/ , that will convert from almost any format to any other. It is fully functional when you download it and it's only $20 to buy. It may be worth trying to convert your DXF to STL in that program.

Robert
meshcam [at] grzsoftware [dot] com