What do I need for 3D work?

[dbprojects]

OK - So now I'm lost...

You might have seen from other threads, that I've started building a JGRO router.
From the months of reading the CncZone forums, I had pretty much decided to start out using
"some" CAD/graphic program (probably Visio to start with), AceConverter, and TurboCNC.

But as I've been reading, it seems that many many users are very satisfied with the additional capabilities that Mach3 provides.
I thought that I've read that Mach3 supports probing - to obtain a point cloud that can be used to generate a 3D model. If it does, I would have thought that Mach3 could then create the 3D gcode..
So lately I've been looking at using TurboCAD (because of price), and Mach3. But if Mach3 can't import the TurboCAD 3D design,
I've got to keep looking.

Besides all of the 2.5D routing, there are 2 things that I'd like to use the CNC machine for:
1) Start with a 2D line pattern, and use a CAD program to "raise" the Z axis to produce a 3D pattern
to route. Think of what the raised surfaces of an ornamental cast iron fence look like. Or what the
cast iron floor heating registers look like - 3D scrollwork.
2) Start with a 3D model (from probing, or a CAD model), and machine it out of wood.
This would eventaully mean that I'd have to add a 4th axis - I'd probably start with a simple
manually indexed fixture so that I can "flip" the wood blank over to finish the machining.
This would be true 3D routing - the Z axis depths would be constantly changing - not set to
a static Z depth like you would have in lettered sign engraving.

I've also read one of your responses that although Mach3 can control the 3 or 4 axis machine, the
problem is finding SW (in a hobby CNC'ers price range) to create the gcode.

So...
Can TurboCad be used with AceConverter, and then Mach 3 to do what I want above?
If not, what combinations will?

Because the learning curve seems to be a steep one with this SW, I'd like to start out and invest my
time in the applications that I'd end up using. Your advice on which applications I should look into
would be very welcome.


Thanks,
Don

[ger21]

1) I think to do what you're describing, you'd need to actually create a 3D model in a CAD program.

2)Both MeshCAM and Vectric's Cut3D should do what you want. Both have demos. You might want to read through this thread, especially the recent posts.
Silo 3D CAD

If you don't have any 3D experience, I'd recommend concentrating on the modeling end before worrying about the CAM side.

As for whether you can do 3D with ACE, no, not really.

[dbprojects]

Originally Posted by ger21 1) I think to do what you're describing, you'd need to actually create a 3D model in a CAD program. 2)Both MeshCAM and Vectric's Cut3D should do what you want. Both have demos. You might want to read through this thread, especially the recent posts. Silo 3D CAD If you don't have any 3D experience, I'd recommend concentrating on the modeling end before worrying about the CAM side. As for whether you can do 3D with ACE, no, not really.

Gerry,
Thanks for the response - your insights are much appreciated...

As for the CAD SW, any suggestions for a reasonably priced solution that I won't grow out of for a while? I've mentioned in my first post in this thread what I'd like to accomplish. I'm sure that Blender / Alibre (free) / Silo / TurboCad etc. have a basic set of built in CAD utilities, but is there one that will be easier to do the things I'm trying to do?

Thanks again,
Don

[ger21]

Originally Posted by dbprojects ........ have a basic set of built in CAD utilities, but is there one that will be easier to do the things I'm trying to do? Thanks again, Don

Can you post some pics of what you want to do?

[dbprojects]

Originally Posted by ger21 Can you post some pics of what you want to do?

From my earlier post, these are the things I'm after (for now...):

Besides all of the 2.5D routing, there are 2 things that I'd like to use the CNC machine for:
1) Start with a 2D line pattern, and use a CAD program to "raise" the Z axis to produce a 3D pattern to route. Think of what the raised surfaces of an ornamental cast iron fence look like. Or what the cast iron floor heating registers look like - 3D scrollwork. [See the cast iron pictures below]
2) Start with a 3D model (from probing, or a CAD model), and machine it out of wood.

Thanks,
Don

[grahamshere]

Hi there. give moi a try, its a 3d cad program very much like rhino cad, you can draw 2d lines and such and the model them to 3d, right now its in beta so it FREE. Silo i dont think is a cad program, more of a 3d modeler . if im not mistaken you can model somthing like your doing faster than probing it, but im not sure so dont quote me on that. www.moi3d.com . Have fun. Graham

[ger21]

Originally Posted by dbprojects 1) Start with a 2D line pattern, and use a CAD program to "raise" the Z axis to produce a 3D pattern to route.

Pretty much any CAD progream can do that with an "extrude" command, but you'll just end up with a flat top and vertical sides.

To get the intricate detail and more rounded shapes like in the pics, you'll want some type of 3D modelling program rather than a CAD program. Probably something that is good for more freeform, organic type models. Rhino and Silo are two, but there are many more, in many different price ranges. Expect a pretty steep learning curve, and artistic ability wouldn't hurt.

[dbprojects]

Originally Posted by ger21 Pretty much any CAD progream can do that with an "extrude" command, but you'll just end up with a flat top and vertical sides. To get the intricate detail and more rounded shapes like in the pics, you'll want some type of 3D modeling program rather than a CAD program. Probably something that is good for more free form, organic type models. Rhino and Silo are two, but there are many more, in many different price ranges. Expect a pretty steep learning curve, and artistic ability wouldn't hurt.

Gerry,
I'm going to take a serious look at Silo and Moi for the 3D modeling, and am now thinking that Alibre Express might be a good place to start for the Cad work. There must be a thread on the board somewhere that describes the Pros/Cons and limitations of the free starter package - but for the price, the Alibre Express Plus package might be a better starting point if it lets me model more parts, and has more features enabled. I thought that I also saw that it does do some 3D work, but the features provided by all these packages are all getting fuzzy.

You're right about the steep learning curve, but it seems (from the Alibre web site writeup) that tutorials are provided.

Also, thanks again for the pointers to Meshcam and Cut3D...

Don

[dbprojects]

Originally Posted by grahamshere Hi there. give moi a try, its a 3d cad program very much like rhino cad, you can draw 2d lines and such and the model them to 3d, right now its in beta so it FREE. Silo i dont think is a cad program, more of a 3d modeler . if im not mistaken you can model somthing like your doing faster than probing it, but im not sure so dont quote me on that. www.moi3d.com . Have fun. Graham

Hi Graham,

Thanks for the pointer to Moi - I had run across this link before, but the examples/writeup is very sparse. I was hoping for more documentation - of any kind - on the site, but found little...

But with your recommendation as a user, I'll definitely take a look at Moi, and see if it is a better fit for what I want to do than Silo or Blender.

Thanks again,
Don

[grahamshere]

Moi has a forum that has lots of tutorials to learn from, Alibre is a great cad program too, I have both and am learnig them as well, I find that for tracing things out moi is easyer but im not sure you can save as a dfx file in moi which is a bummer, Alibre you can, there both use nurbs and silo uses polys, you can maybe use both silo and a cad program to gether just save your cad file as a 3ds or obj, never tried it might work. Graham

[ger21]

Alibre Xpress:

Pros:

It's free. Easy to use after following tutorials.

Cons:

Not really cons, but limits of the free version. A few advanced modeling tools are missing, and assemblies of parts are limited to 5 parts I think, although that may have been increased. Limited export formats.

For 2.5D stuff, I wouldn't try using Alibre. Just use a simple 2D CAD program

[dbprojects]

[QUOTE=ger21;317073
For 2.5D stuff, I wouldn't try using Alibre. Just use a simple 2D CAD program[/QUOTE]

OK Gerry,

You probably knew I'd ask the next question as soon as you hit "Submit Reply" ...
So - what are your candidates for "a simple 2D CAD program".

Don