Rhino, or alibre, what would be better for me?

[SND]

Hi,

Since I'm totaly new to this cad/cam design I'd like some of your input on this. I planning to get a Tormach in perhaps 2 months. So its time I start looking at what I need to make it do what I need.

I generaly recieve drawings in PDF format, only 1 customer sends them from Solidworks as E-drawings.

First: Is there a program that I can use to create G-codes directly from the PDF drawings I get or do I have to redraw everything in another program?

Usualy all my work is normal machined parts, most of which is only 2.5D as I've been doing all this work manualy so far. I do want something that I can do 3d with though. Mostly for personal projects.

What is generaly better for drawing a part to be machined. Alibre or Rhino? perhaps something else? Being that I'm totaly new I would like to start with the most suited software for me and just learn that as best as I can. I don't really want to start on one and learn 6months later that I might be better off with something else and have to relearn all over again.

I read something about rhino not doing parametrics? what does that mean anyway? is it something I need when drawing basic parts or is it just needed when doing whole assemblies?


At first I thought Rhino + madcam + mach2 or 3 might be what is needed to run the machine. But I wonder. I would defenatly like to keep the cost minimal as long as I get what I need out of it.

Any input on this whole deal is very appreciated.

thanks

[ger21]

Rhino, or alibre, what would be better for me?

Probably depends on the CAM software you plan on using. If you want to go with MadCAM, then you have to go with Rhino.

If most of your parts are 2.5D, take a look at www.sheetcam.com
Any $100 CAD program (I like DesignCAD, very powerful for the price) and SheetCAM is a pretty powerful package.

For 3D you can add MeshCAM, www.meshcam.com

But, if you need Rhino to model your 3D parts, maybe Rhino and MadCAM would be the best for you? Only you can makethat choice.

All the above mentioned software has demos available, and both the SheetCAM and MeshCAM demos can be extended if you contact the authors.

[Death Adder]

Yeah, I use Rhino for 3D reverse engineering and design of complex dies and it's a very nice product for the price. Rhino can be used for everything from simple projects up to really complicated things. However, there are no assemblies (there might be an add-on for it though) and no parametrics. It's a GREAT freeform NURBS modeller though. There are many CAM packages available for Rhino. I use SurfCAM (which isn't exactly really friendly with Rhino but Rhino can output Solidworks files so it works just fine) but I wouldn't recommend a 15k CAM package if you really don't need it (and it sounds like you dont) There is a free CAM package for Rhino, sorry I don't remember what it's called. I'm sure it's listed on McNeel's site (www.rhino3d.com) I think that it's supposed to be decent except for maybe not having roughing support.

Parametrics allow you to do changes to a model and have everything auto update. For instance, lets say you have a die that is just a cylinder with a fillet edge. Now, you want to enlarge the radius of the cylinder. With parametrics you can just grab the cylinder and enlarge it and everything changes to match. In Rhino the fillet will not update unless you enlarge it too. That example is really simple compared to the real uses for parametrics but you get the idea.

In version 4 Rhino is starting to get some parametric like functions but I wouldn't expect it to really fully support parametrics until ver 5 or 6. Rhino however has a better user community than any other CAD/CAM program I have seen. They offer a newsgroup that the Rhino developers actually visit. There are also a million and two add-ons for rhino and they are usually very reasonably priced.

Before anybody suggests it to you... Please, for the love of God do not even think about BobCAD. It's just about as low as you can go for a CAD/CAM product. Heaven help you if a BobCAM salesman ever gets your number. You'll end up slitting your wrists to escape the torrent.

[lakeside]

Originally Posted by Death Adder Before anybody suggests it to you... Please, for the love of God do not even think about BobCAD. It's just about as low as you can go for a CAD/CAM product. Heaven help you if a BobCAM salesman ever gets your number. You'll end up slitting your wrists to escape the torrent.

well I stayed out of this thread becase it about rhino but I bought bobcad and I'm glad I did. For 3d work and drawing it beat the hell out of your basic rhino for the price. at work I would not use ether, we use Surfcam(5-axis milling work). But I will agree that bobcad sales force is by far the worst group I've had to work with.

[lakeside]

with a tormach you can use any cad/cam software you like. Alibre is very good software and can do update and other neat thing. But if you add up your cost for alibre+rhino+madcam(for 3d) you may want to look at bobcad.Your in a home shop you don't need to spend $2500 Bobcad version 20 will cost $500 and can do all the 3d work you will ever need

[tobyaxis]

Originally Posted by lakeside well I stayed out of this thread becase it about rhino but I bought bobcad and I'm glad I did. For 3d work and drawing it beat the hell out of your basic rhino for the price. at work I would not use ether, we use Surfcam But I will agree that bobcad sales force is by far the worst group I've had to work with.

I'm with Mike (lakeside) on BCC. Sales Reps can be a bit troublesome. I'm not and will never waste my time or money on Rhino's rediculous prices. BCC is a complete package of both CAD and CAM for around $500. 3D, Solids , and Free Post Processors, and it keeps getting better and better as far as it's abilites. BCC like any software has Limitations. Really it's up to you on what to spend for functions and abilities you need.

My advise is for you to try demos. Choose the one that is right for you and what you would like to do with it. Don't forget to plan a little ahead of possible functions you may need in the future.

I wish you luck in your search, and don't forget the zone is here for any questions you may have in the future.

[Death Adder]

Well, I'm downloading BCC 21 right now to see if I've been too harsh. I remember it from the 19 or 20 era and it sucked. Maybe 21 is better. I doubt it but maybe. I'd challenge anyone to try try Rhino and BobCAD side by side and then pick BobCAD. It's a trivial toy compared to better products. SurfCAM + Rhino might be expensive but they are sure worlds better than BobCAD.

I suppose that it comes down to price. If you are doing industrial work then you'd be an idiot to use BobCAD but if BCC is all you can afford then go with it.

Originally Posted by tobyaxis I'm with Mike (lakeside) on BCC. Sales Reps can be a bit troublesome. I'm not and will never waste my time or money on Rhino's rediculous prices. BCC is a complete package of both CAD and CAM for around $500. 3D, Solids , and Free Post Processors, and it keeps getting better and better as far as it's abilites. BCC like any software has Limitations. Really it's up to you on what to spend for functions and abilities you need.

[lakeside]

Originally Posted by Death Adder I'd challenge anyone to try try Rhino and BobCAD side by side and then pick BobCAD. It's a trivial toy compared to better products. SurfCAM + Rhino might be expensive but they are sure worlds better than BobCAD. I suppose that it comes down to price. If you are doing industrial work then you'd be an idiot to use BobCAD but if BCC is all you can afford then go with it.

your basic rhino is for 2 1/2 axis work it not for 3d. Bobcad has come a long way, most of the improvement where in ver.20.I did try Rhino before buying Bobcad.With Bobcad you get a pretty good 3d modeling and cam.I bought version 19, 2 seat with Bobart for $500.in 2004
I will say that madcam3d is a nice program and onecnc is also very good software.As for Bobcad use in the jobshop or 3d model or mold shop there are more and more taking a secound look at Bobcad over mastercam and it the price that doing it.Also how can you put rhino (not madcam 3d) in the same field of software as Surfcam?

[Death Adder]

Originally Posted by lakeside your basic rhino is for 2 1/2 axis work it not for 3d. Bobcad has come a long way, most of the improvement where in ver.20.I did try Rhino before buying Bobcad.With Bobcad you get a pretty good 3d modeling and cam.I bought version 19, 2 seat with Bobart for $500.in 2004 I will say that madcam3d is a nice program and onecnc is also very good software.As for Bobcad use in the jobshop or 3d model or mold shop there are more and more taking a secound look at Bobcad over mastercam and it the price that doing it.Also how can you put rhino (not madcam 3d) in the same field of software as Surfcam?

First off, I shouldn't have used such derisive language in my above post. I know you didn't really comment on it but I still feel I wasn't really in line there...

Saying rhino is for 2.5D is just plain nonsense. It is one of the easiest and most intuitive 3d NURBS modellers out there. You could create 5 axis projects with ease. In fact, plenty of people do. I limit myself to dies that can be cut on a 3 axis mill but not everyone does.

I put rhino and surfcam together because they compliment each other. Rhino has NO machining capability at all without add-ons. SurfCAM really, really sucks for doing any 3d modelling at all. It's almost totally just for machining. Together they make beautiful music. However, that beautiful music sets you back about 16k or so depending on what you need.

I did have a BobCAD installation for doing flat blank cutting. I'll admit it has it's strengths in 2D CAD. However, once you get into complicated 3D shapes Rhino quickly beats it to the ground and keeps kicking. In fact, rhino tends to be a better modeller than even more expensive packages (such as solid works). A lot of people do surface modelling in Rhino and put together the solids and assemblies in other packages. Still, rhino is good for one thing and one thing only. Making surfaces. After that you need something else. It is nice that BobCAD has CAD and CAM integrated and for very little money. However, you get what you pay for. You get a mediocre modeller and mediocre CAM. It is however only mediocre if you need something more than what it is. If if it does everything you'd ever need it to do then I suppose it's the logical choice. It's plenty cheap!

I guess it all comes down to using what you like. Rhino as a demo, BobCAD as a demo. Try them both. See what you like and what you need. Rhino is the more expensive option (by far I'd think... It's $900 by itself and then you need a CAM package) but for my money rhino is worth every single penny and then some.

[lakeside]

Originally Posted by Death Adder . Rhino has NO machining capability at all without add-ons. SurfCAM really, really sucks for doing any 3d modelling at all. It's almost totally just for machining. Together they make beautiful music..

The type of machining you are doing is far more than most people or shop do.Once you get into complex 3d or 5 axis you are are the limits of Bobcad (Bobcad will only set c axis in plane).But now your into how much $10-$15K.Most job shops work is 95% 2 1/2 axis.I did miss speak about Rhino it was the cam issue that stopped me from going with rhino.Bobcad for 90% of the people that will ever be able to understand 3d programming and solid modelling Bobcad will meet there needs for the cost of just the suport package of surfcam

[turmite]

Actually Rhino can be bought quite a bit less than the $900 quoted. Offbroadway has if for $795, and there is another vendor out there that sells it for less than that, but for the life of me I can't remember their name. I remember they sell quite a bit of other software so maybe that will help someone find them.

Mike

[ger21]

Originally Posted by lakeside your basic rhino is for 2 1/2 axis work it not for 3d.?

Rhino was designed as a 3D nurbs modeler. It does it at least as good as anyone, if not better. At any price.