5 Axis

[JerryFlyGuy]

Just wondering who's actually using 5 axis machine tools, and of what variety. What CAM programs your using. I'm specificaly looking for more info on the style shown below [ Don't know the offical name]. Interested in 3+2 as well as 4+1 or 5 axis continuous. Also wondering about post processors as well as what machine controls your using [Mach, Fanuc, Hass, EMC, CAMsoft etc]

Thanks
Jerry [Credit= this gif was shamelessly borrowed from rainnea.com/cnc]

[Alan L]

I'm on the software side, but thought I'd add the standard 5-axis commentary to get a discussion going.

The usual applications for 5-axis are:
use shorter cutters near steep walls by leaning the cutter at angle
reach undercut locations
reduce number of fixturing setups
machine the part with fewer jobs / fewer manufacturing processes
more...

The control of your proposed machine should be handled by the CAM postprocessor feeding the CNC contoller. As the spindle and Z-column are not aligned, some extra care may be required for interference checking and in PP development.

And from a stiffness point of view, you are probably better off with 3+2 or 4+1, especially during roughing and heavier cuts.

[JerryFlyGuy]

Thanks Alan, I was getting to think that no-one use's 5 axis these days

So do you know of anyone selling a .."Pre-Post" processor? Something that would take the tool length and 5 axis head geometry , that the exported gcode and create a gcode file w/ the kinematic's calculated, which could then be transfered to the control software, such as MACH??

Jerry

[Geof]

I have seen a few posts mentioning 5 axis but not taken much notice because it is out of my league. One thing I did note was the cost of CAM for 5 axis. Sit down Jerry; I seem to recall one post with the figure of $50,000 and I am sure several mentioned $15,000 to $25,000.

edit:
I should have done this first: a search using "5 axis" on the title only pulled up 46 results.

[cbass]

Originally Posted by Geof I have seen a few posts mentioning 5 axis but not taken much notice because it is out of my league. One thing I did note was the cost of CAM for 5 axis. Sit down Jerry; I seem to recall one post with the figure of $50,000 and I am sure several mentioned $15,000 to $25,000. edit: I should have done this first: a search using "5 axis" on the title only pulled up 46 results.

20 K? Maybe for a parts machine.

Anything in working condition would probably be double to tripple that.

[Geof]

Originally Posted by cbass 20 K? Maybe for a parts machine. Anything in working condition would probably be double to tripple that.

Sorry my phrasing was awkward; the prices were what I recall being mentioned for the 5 axis CAM software. For a 5 axis machine I think your triple understates it. I have almost as much difficulty bending my mind around the prices as I do bending my mind trying to visualize machining something using 5 axes. I wonder if anyone has ever programmed one of those things manually.

[JerryFlyGuy]

Geof, you keep posting on my threads.. [which has been very helpful BTW]

I'm exploring the option of moving to 5 axis, my current CAM will do it, but doesn't do the Kinematics of 5 axis so either I've got to find a way around it or a new CAM program. I really like the one I've got but I also plan to take this above the hobby level, soo if need be.. I'll do what I have to.

As far as Price, I hear you, I've already got a $10k CAM program I know there is money involved, but I also know that other 5 axis system's aren't quite 50k. FeatureCAM is about 15k and I've heard other numbers in that range up to about 25k. I don't know what these numbers all include but it was just for ref.

As far as other solutions are concerned , there is the possibility of moving from simple Hobby control programing to an OEM solution, however in this case we are talking 50k.. easy... There are ones out there that will do the G48/49 tool offsets [which unfortuantly most hobby level control's don't] and run the Gcode right off the CAM. I'm not excited about going this direction, simply because I don't think you can match the tech support of some of the hobby level system's, I've heard horror story's about high priced controls and ZERO support.. once they get your cheque, your S.O.L. as far as any help implimenting them. This is why I'm interested in locating other's and finding out their experiances and where their going & what their doing as far as 5 axis.

I'd be happy w/ a 3+2 or 4+1 system, it doesn't have to be simultanious, but somehow.. I'd like to be able to do some steep wall stuff..

Thanks for the help so far!!

Jerry [ dreaming in 3D...]

P.s.-I'll do the title only search.. the 'search all of thread' function brings up like... 500 threads..

[cadfish]

I tried asking the same question. I got no answers. I am in the designing phase of one right now using the 80/20 set up but school work comes first. You can use Mach 3 or later software. I got the same picture that you did from http://www.rainnea.com/cnc.htm. I think that I will update my other thread that talks about this and see if I can get any suggestions.

cadfish

[JerryFlyGuy]

Hey there CADFISH, so did you get anything as far as info?? The Rainnea.com thing is pretty cool, unfortunatly it works in 3Dmax so... for artistic stuff, great.. for mechanical design files, I'm not so sure.. I've not used 3Dmax so.. can't offer a conclusive opinion but.. its not as user friendly as some of the CAM programs out there.. mind you.. it does do simulatanious 5 axis.. and or positional 6 axis.. if I understand it right.. and the code will run on Mach...

Pretty nifty none the less.

Jerry [High from epoxy paint again.. ahh well.. the garage floor is now done.. ]

[Splint]

I think G Max and 3DS Max can import dxf and maybe even igs (cant recall exactly) files so do you cad in your cad software and save as DXF or IGS them import into G max or 3DS Max and do the cam side there.

[benergy]

I got a question about the rainnea.com head. The router is not directly underneath the rotation of the head meaning there is a offset of the router to one side, i see this making the toolpathing quite odd to generate. Does anyone know how this is achieved,does the software compensate for this in the toolpath generation side. Also The was a posting on this site with that head, and the adress where you couold purchase the parts to build the head cheaply.........does anyone know where that page is? or where the parts are purchased from

benergy

[Dan B]

We have been doing 5-axis work for close to 3 years. We originally bought the Tri-tech head for our Fadal 6030. (www.5-axis.com) It does a pretty good job for light duty applications, but what it really accomplished, that is noteworthy, is that it opened the eyes of senior management as to the need to get serious about 5-axis. The increases in efficiency were amazing, so within the year we purchased a Hermle C800U. It's been a superb machine, and has completely changed the way we produce our fixtures. We will be receiving our second Hermle (the C40) in late July. We have already been talking about adding a third Hermle (the new C20) for doing detail work (all angled holes, for example)

None of this has been cheap. The Tri-tech head, when all was said and done, cost in the area of $100K (Canadian $'s). The Hermle C800U ran around $400K and our newest machine set us back $550K.

As far as CAM software to program it, cost will be relative to the type of paths you intend to produce. For example, 3+2 programming can be done with the cheaper products like VisualMill or OneCNC for anywhere from $5K to $10K. If you want simultaneous 5-axis, and you want quality toolpaths, you need to look at products like HyperMill, Tebis, UG, Catia, PowerMill, WorkNC or MasterCam. These products, with simultaneous 5-axis modules, will run anywhere from $25K to over $50K, depending on how many different types of toolpaths you need.

As far as post-processors go, the importance of a good post cannot be overemphasized. A great software can be rendered next to useless if the post produces poor tool movements. I have had a couple of posts written by John at www.postprocessors.com, and have had some really good results. He works with you until you get the results you need, and is reasonably priced, below the industry standard of $1K per axis.

A lot will depend on what you need to do. If full continuous motion is not really needed, then don't use it. We can do both positional and simultaneous, and we do the positional rotations 95% of the time. Save the simultaneous stuff for when it is really needed. You will cut much quicker if your feeds are not dependant on the limitations of the rotating axis, whether a trunnion table of a rotating head.

Hope some of this helps,

Dan