Any RhinoCAM users?

[saturnnights]

I have their demo installed - just started to work with it seriously today, even though I've had it a couple of weeks. Anyway, it ~seems~ to be working okay - generated toolpaths on my screen, but it's "broken" by design in demo mode and won't generate gcode for me to run. I suppose it's the equivalent of RhinoCAM saying, "Trust us, it produces great results!"
I told my wife that it's like sitting in the driver's seat of a Lexus and revving the engine and having the salesguy say, "You can't actually take it out for a test drive, but it runs smooth - trust me." I have a lot of heartburn plunking down money for something I've never really used :-(
The guy from RhinoCAM's called and left messages for me twice now. I suppose I should call him back and tell him that I can't really evaluate his software...

Shoot...

Wouldn't you think that when you're going to spend a grand on some software, you'd get to see if it works? If it doesn't do what I need after I've bought it, I obviously can't return it :frown:

Mark

[ger21]

Originally Posted by saturnnights Wouldn't you think that when you're going to spend a grand on some software, you'd get to see if it works? If it doesn't do what I need after I've bought it, I obviously can't return it :frown: Mark

Get him to give you a money-back guarantee if you can't get a functional demo. When we spent 20K on software at work, that's what we did. The first guy wasn't too happy when we sent the software back.

[Dan B]

Hi Mark,

I applaude your caution. To properly evaluate CAM software you must cut at least 1 test block. Otherwise, it's just a pretty picture on your tube.

I would talk to the Mecsoft person calling and voice your concerns. Maybe they will help you.

Dan

[HayTay]

Mark,

Talk to the sales person and see if they can arrange a time limited, say 15 - 30 day, evaluation license. It really doesn't cost them anything and has the potential to generate a sale in a few days/weeks if their product is a good as they say it is.

Hint: You may need to call in a few times to find either their "best" or "most deperate" sales person.

It's worth a try, whaddya got ta lose?

HayTay

[saturnnights]

The sad thing is that the demo looks like it will do what I need it to do, which I'm finding is pretty hard to find. :frown:

I wrote the sales guy to see what he could do for me...

[saturnnights]

Well, RhinoCAM is not inclined to offer functional demos. They will however, sell you the product and offer a 30-day money-back guarantee that it works "as promised" - which means, very simply, that there's absolutely no chance of getting your money back because it will always work as they've promised. Of course, it may not work at all like you need it to work, or with your mill, etc...

Anyway, here's my e-mail and their response:





Hello Mark,

A car dealer would not let you use the car for a period of time at your
convenience and return it! So that analogy does not really hold.

BUT...
We do offer an online demo directly from our office, which can be scheduled
at your convenience. Purpose is to make sure that our product suits your
machining needs. We try our best to determine the match before we sell you
the product.

We also do offer a 30 day money back gaurantee, if the product does not work
as promised.

As an aside, we did used to offer a trial version when we started, 8 years
ago - it was widely mis-used and I am not inclined to going back to that.

Regards,
Anita
MecSoft Corp
949.654.8163 x 101


----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 10:50 AM
Subject: RhinoCAM Basic demo


> Hi,
>
> I have your demo loaded onto my machine and was wondering if you had one
> that wasn't crippled? I can hardly evaluate the gcode output with my
system
> unless it actually generates gcode. It's rather like purchasing a car and
> only being allowed to rev the engine in the parking lot while the salesguy
> assures me that once I've paid them, I'll be happy with the way it drives
> and handles.
>
> Why not offer a time-limited demo that works? Or offer a money-back
> guarantee on the purchase...
>
> Sincerely,
> Mark North
>

[Dan B]

Wow, that just boggles my mind! Your car analogy is appropriate because all you want to do is "test drive" the software on your machine, not work with it for a month and then return it as she alludes to.

I wouldn't buy a car if I couldn't test drive it. Period. Watching someone else drive it around a parking lot is not adequate, which is exactly what an on-line demo is.

If that is the stance that these companies want to take, then they should have regional people who can come to you, sit down and program a part, and hang around to watch it cut. All the big players do this (OpenMind, Tebis, etc)

I can see taking this stance with a purely CAD software. Essentially what you see on the tube is what you get. Plot some drawings or create a rendering and you can prove out the product. CAM software is not like that. The quality of a CAM software is determined on the machine.

For what it's worth, Machining Stratigest from Vero is a downloadable CAM program that includes the ability to post and cut.

www.vero-software.com

Also, you can get a fully functional demo from WorkNC.

www.sescoi.com

These are much more expensive programs than RhinoCam, but the point is that these companies know the right way to market their product.

I personally, would have them reword the money back policy to include verbage that allows you to get your money back if you, as the customer, are not 100% satisfied, not whether it works as promised.

Dan

[HuFlungDung]

I should hope when shopping for cadcam software that I wouldn't have to go through the gcode to see if what I see on the screen is what I get on the machine. If I cannot verify the code through simulation or toolpath preview, then I don't want the software, period.

It is only necessary to ask around if the verification function for whatever package you are looking at, is in good working order.

More to the point of what one should look for is how the interface is set up to create machining processes. This is what you are going to have to look at for the rest of your days if you buy one rather pricey package, hoping that it is your last. It should only take a few days to prove out the GUI, whether you understand it, and whether you can get help from someone else to understand it.

It would take a lot of time to carefully examine many programs in depth. It takes a few weeks of everyday use to get really comfortable with any program. This means applying it to the variety of jobs that come up in your own shop. If you are a newbie to cadcam, it is just as well if you 'spin the bottle', pick one and stick with it....learn it really well. The package you pick must not be so cheap that it lacks the features you need, essentially, those are a waste of time to even bother looking at.

[Ed_R]

My biggest complaint righ tnow is in configuring the 'preview' and 'simulation' software to match that of my hardware.
Take for example yennb's testcut.zip file, it's a standard gcode file, but its; got numbers WAY TOO BIG for my machine, so I switch the sim to metric and it works fine- but I try to run it on mymachine, even after switching to metric, and uh-uh, crash-bang-boom.
Fguring al this out is going to be a real juggling act- and this is BEFORE I start learnign cad and cam programs.

[strat]

http://www.cncportal.com/downloadfree.htm
go here and sign up and get a a copy of freemill from em basically based on the same program so you can get an idea of what the other does and the nice thing ............
a freebie

[Dan B]

Hi Hu,

Theoretically you should be right. Toolpath verification should show you what the program is going to do on the machine. However, if the verification is using the CLdata file (or whatever the particular software calls it) then you are not seeing what is actually being cut. Post-processors can "make or break" a CAM program. I'm seeing this right now with my WorkNC 5X module evaluation. On the tube it looks great, but on the machine the toolpaths stutter and stall, and are borderline useless. Had I not had a working evaluation, I would have purchased it and been very disappointed (we are talking about $7500 here). I plan to evaluate it again, and do test cuts, when the next version is available.

This is the experience I am trying to share in this thread, and why I am adamant about cutting test blocks to properly evaluate a CAM package.

Dan

[saturnnights]

Originally Posted by HuFlungDung I should hope when shopping for cadcam software that I wouldn't have to go through the gcode to see if what I see on the screen is what I get on the machine. If I cannot verify the code through simulation or toolpath preview, then I don't want the software, period.

Heck, I don't want to go line-by-line, but just plug it into Mach3 and see what happens - I have some other, expensive, fully-working demos that don't seem to produce what they should. And I can't run RhinoCAM through a simulator because their output is so guarded - no saving and no copy/paste. Just look at it; admire the pretty colors; trust them!!

Originally Posted by HuFlungDung It would take a lot of time to carefully examine many programs in depth. It takes a few weeks of everyday use to get really comfortable with any program. This means applying it to the variety of jobs that come up in your own shop. If you are a newbie to cadcam, it is just as well if you 'spin the bottle', pick one and stick with it....learn it really well. The package you pick must not be so cheap that it lacks the features you need, essentially, those are a waste of time to even bother looking at.

Believe me, I'm spending the time here! I want something that will work for me and my situation - for a thousand+ dollars, I can't make a mistake