Any RhinoCAM users?

[saturnnights]

Originally Posted by JRoque Absolutely. We test drove our new Ford Explorer for 3 days before deciding we didn't like the COLOR! Yep, we returned it and got another color, no sweat. Yes the 2nd one had 25 miles on it and we assumed that was testing from another customer and we accepted this.

I was thinking about this too - many dealers will indeed let you try the car for a few days. My parents returned a Grand Marquis because my mom didn't like the interior color in daylight.

Originally Posted by JRoque It's true that software hacking runs rampant but that's no excuse not to allow your hand-picked potential customers to try your product. I mean, the guy contacted Mecsoft with a serious inquiry. The least they can do is give him a net-30 bill and send him the product. If he doesn't like it, he can return it before 30 days. What's the risk to Mecsoft? Will this person run all of his jobs within 30 days and not need VisualMill ever again?

I can't imagine that they have many people actually ask them for a functional demo - I'm guessing most people wouldn't bother. They have a strange philosophy. Maybe they think that us Rhino people have no choice but them?
Anyway, Rhino's fully-working-for-25-saves demo was all that it took to convince me to buy their product. Why RhinoCAM can't see the value in offering a full demo for a short period of time demonstrates a problem somewhere - either in their management or in their product. I'm guessing both.

Originally Posted by JRoque I would write them a letter, not email, and request a 30 day trial. There's no way they would deny this if they know what they're doing. JR

Do you think they have a limited-time demo to offer? I'm guessing that they don't even have a time-limited demo to offer anymore, since they've abandoned that marketing option.

[saturnnights]

Originally Posted by HuFlungDung Saturn, I wonder if you are just getting bogged down with details of the post processor configuration? If you are still green at cadcam and cnc programming, it makes it doubly difficult to know what good code looks like, or what configuration options are available in gcode that will still run safely on your machine.

I'm really new at all of this, that's for sure. But why does that mean I can't "test drive" a couple of CAM apps to see which one produces what I need as easily as possible? I have a basic idea of what I'm looking for and then I see advertising that alleges to offer this, but I have to take their word for it? For a thousand bucks? I'll spend the money, if I see that it works.

Originally Posted by HuFlungDung It does not hurt to shop for the maximum value for your dollar, but I think you need to have a little faith, that what other users with similar controls have used and have working for them, is also going to work for you. You might not understand it all at the beginning, but none of us did

FAITH??? Are we talking about a thousand dollar software purchase, or religion? I don't know if you're being serious here? If that's true of CAM software (buy it and it will just work for you), then why are there so many vendors?

Anyway, being new to CNC doesn't mean that I am too stupid to trust with a demo package and that I don't deserve to test drive a few apps. Does it?

[moesi]

Hu, I believe that the saturnnight's concerns are appropriate regaurdles of the software provider. I purchased OneCNC 6 months before I recieved my machine so that I could learn to use the software while I waited. I loved the software but when it came time for them to provide me with a functional postprocessor, they were unable to meet their promise that they could write a post for "any" machine. If this sounds bitter in any way, it shouldn't be taken so. If OneCNC's postprocessor capabilities were to ever include the neccesary flexibility that I need for my machine's unique requirements, I would purchase it immediately. I have tried many different systems since then and haven't found one as easy to use, but I have found some capable of meeting my needs. I recieved a partial refund from OneCNC which I thank them for (would have prefered a full refund of course) and I would give them a 6 or 7 on a scale of 1-10 for dealing with a difficult problem and a 10 on their product, but had they been forced by me to generate the code BEFORE taking my money, I would not have invested time learning software I couldn't use and would have kept many hundred dollars more to invest in the right software. If Rhinocam can't at least provide (and e-mail) an operational program of typical parts postprocessed in an online demo (if it isn't performed live, how does one know it wasn't hand edited to work for a sale), then they should provide a functional demo for more thorough evaluation. I think that OneCNC would greatly benefit from providing a demo as well. Saturnnight, stick to your guns and buy something you know will work. The most honestly given promise is not enough in the software vendor world.
Hu, PLEASE talk OneCNC into getting rid of that lousy postprocessing system. It may work for 99% of machines but there needs to be a option to write a custom post instead. It's great that anyone can adjust their current one but it is TOO LIMITING.
Have a good one!

[Dan B]

For what it's worth, Tebis offers a time limited fully functional demo if you take a couple of days of training at your expense.

I think that is quite fair.

A problem with demo's on complex software (which Tebis is) is that people may get frustrated and give up, and attribute that frustration to the software.

Companies like Mecsoft or OneCNC could offer on-line training, charge for it, then offer the demo. If you are not willing to pay for training, then you are not that serious about the software. Of course the cost of the training should be proportional to the cost of the software.

Does this seem like a reasonable compromise?

Dan

[ger21]

There is another option for Rhino if you don't get anywhere with RhinoCAM. http://www.gvf.se/madcam/start.html

As for Hu saying to have some faith. If you hang around places like this long enough, you'll get a lot of feedback on a lot of different things, whether you're looking for it or not. Based on what I've heard, if I needed a CAM package like RhinoCAM (Visual Mill) or OneCNC, I'd feel comfortable buying either one without a demo. I can't say that about some other packages. The important thing to consider is that the package you choose has the features you need. That should be the deciding factor, once you're comfortable with a vendor. Keep in mind that there are a lot of options out there, at a lot of different price points. Unless you're in a hurry, explore ALL your options. Being a woodworker (both hobby and professional), I may have a different perspective than others here.It really depends a lot on what you're doing, but I feel that I could do most of what RhinoCAM can do with SheetCAM and MeshCAM, for 1/3 the price. It may take a little longer, but the time differrence shouldn't be too great one you get proficient. RhinoCAM basic doesn't offer much (if anything) more than MeshCAM for 3D, as you need the Pro version for most of the toolpath options. And when compared to SheetCAM, the only added features are V-carving and thread milling.


A good place to get a feel for a program is to join the user groups and read the messages.

[saturnnights]

Originally Posted by ger21 There is another option for Rhino if you don't get anywhere with RhinoCAM. http://www.gvf.se/madcam/start.html

Now this looks interesting - I'm gonna download and try it. And it's a couple hundred less than RhinoCAM too! Thanks for the tip!

Originally Posted by ger21 As for Hu saying to have some faith. If you hang around places like this long enough, you'll get a lot of feedback on a lot of different things, whether you're looking for it or not. Based on what I've heard, if I needed a CAM package like RhinoCAM (Visual Mill) or OneCNC, I'd feel comfortable buying either one without a demo. I can't say that about some other packages. The important thing to consider is that the package you choose has the features you need. That should be the deciding factor, once you're comfortable with a vendor. Keep in mind that there are a lot of options out there, at a lot of different price points. Unless you're in a hurry, explore ALL your options. Being a woodworker (both hobby and professional), I may have a different perspective than others here.It really depends a lot on what you're doing, but I feel that I could do most of what RhinoCAM can do with SheetCAM and MeshCAM, for 1/3 the price. It may take a little longer, but the time differrence shouldn't be too great one you get proficient. RhinoCAM basic doesn't offer much (if anything) more than MeshCAM for 3D, as you need the Pro version for most of the toolpath options. And when compared to SheetCAM, the only added features are V-carving and thread milling. A good place to get a feel for a program is to join the user groups and read the messages.

I guess I'm skeptical when it comes to software (being a professional IT manager). It never does exactly what it claims and you have to try it and see what each package's specific problems are and then decide which you'd rather live with. That was my job - I used to try demos for a publishing company and you'd be surprised at what you'll find with a fully-functional demo (which weren't hard to obtain).

Anyway, if I can test drive it, I'll buy it. If I can't, then my thousand bucks won't be much of a loss to that company as I'm only one person.

[HuFlungDung]

Originally Posted by moesi ~snip~ Hu, PLEASE talk OneCNC into getting rid of that lousy postprocessing system. It may work for 99% of machines but there needs to be a option to write a custom post instead. It's great that anyone can adjust their current one but it is TOO LIMITING. Have a good one!

No can do, Moesi, besides, I like the post processor setup. Its one of the main strengths of the program, and could well be one of the main reasons that simulation is bulletproof. I don't know all the gritty details, but it seems logical that if you want a reliable cadcam, tight control has to be maintained over the way that the gcode is posted. That way, confidence in the posted code will be increased for the user.

OneCNC's post setup is not overly difficult for anyone to experiment with and modify to try various things, without waiting for weeks and paying thousands of dollars extra for a professional programmer to 'get back to you'. True, there are a limited number of areas where the user can modify this or that feature in his post, but for the majority of users, I don't think there are many who are "stuck" because of the configuration of the OneCNC post. Sure, some people have adopted certain styles of programming (on their own) that cannot be perfectly emulated, but with a little thought, and an honest look at revamping your programming style, it works quite well for the majority of controls.

If you saw the integration of 4th and 5th axis into the front end of the OneCNC nc post setup, you might be astounded at how simple it looks. But the simplicity came at great cost to the programmers who conquered many problems with trying to accomodate the quirks of a variety of 4th axis controls.

That being said, OneCNC has not stopped development. Like any healthy app, it continues to evolve, and I have no idea of exactly what comes next.