I don't want to use emachineshop...

[korntheuer]

Hi,

This is my first post.

I'm half a newbie to machining. Up to now I had a local shop make a few
parts for me. I have send them my "technical drawings" which are pencil
drawings made to scale with dimensions ( I learned this from a little book
"Teach yourself technical drawing", D. Maguire ) and I talked to the
machinist on the phone. This always worked out OK.

But things are getting different. I have to change the way I work
because:
- pencil drawings take too much time and I'm always afraid of making
a blunder
- I will have to draw much more parts
- my local shop does not have all the machines I need, I need to
go more international
- I need to send my plans by email ( does not work very nicely
with pencil drawings )
- I have to learn others how to draw parts...

So the conclusion is clear. I'll have to upgrade from pencil to software.
This is not a real problem as I have been programming computers
for more then 20 years. So why did I start out with a pencil? From
experience I know that advanced software can have a very steep
learning curve. It can be a tremendous time sink. I needed quick
results and a pencil will never complain "illegal operation, can not
extent line outside predefined active boundary".

So I had to find software that was easy to use and learn and that would
generate files that a machinist loves and at the same time generate
dimensioned plans for my documentation.

I had a look at a few programs but they all had the steep learning curve
problem. I know I can learn but I do not look forward to teaching
others to use this. I will be full time helping others to battle the
software.

Then I found emachineshop.

Wow! Perfect! Very simple software. Only the things you really
need. Forces you to think like a machinist as you actually are
virtually milling and drilling a part, not drawing some general drawing
( You can draw your house with AutoCAD but you can't with
emachineshop, which is exactly right because you can't machine
your house ). I followed their tutorials and 2 hours later I felt
like an expert. a few hours after that I designed all the parts I had
made up to then. Days of pencil drawings copied in a few hours.
What a high! And I could check the 3D view for any blunders. Wow!

But then... I click on 'price'. After a long wait it came up with a
price. Ugghhh! That's astronomical! My local shop is a lot cheaper!
And that's in Belgium, a country with high wages. And I can not
speak on the phone with the machinist! I get a result from my
local shop in a week but emachineshop needs more 30 working days!

Why would I pay way too much for a part, wait for way too long,
have not a chance to talk to the machinist and in the end receive
a crummy part ( emachineshop does not get good comments
on quality on internet forums )?

Because the software is great... ( and free )

I have only a few negative points about the software:
- sometimes it very slow to generate a 3D view on only
moderately complex parts.
- it is limited in some ways, you can not give a simple profile for
lathe to turn ( a rather basic operation in the CNC world ) etc...
- IT DOES NOT GIVE DIMENSIONS...

I tried if I could open their .ems file format in other software. I checked
if other shops accepted their files. Mhhh...

That seems to be their trick. Lure you with great soft and then
you are chained to them to buy the overpriced part they outsource
to an other shop.

I don't like that. That's the reason that there are no dimensions
on the drawings. That's why the DXF export function produces
such a crummy result. It's to stop you going to an (any) other shop
that is cheaper and faster and better. This is the opposite of what
they claim on their site. They say they are fast and cheap because
they cut out the middle, but actually they are the fat middle that did
not exist before!

So what is the solution?

We need software that:
a) is simple to learn and use as emachineshop
b) generates files that a shop can use
c) generates technical drawings ( with dimensions ) for documentation
purposes


I see two options here:

option 1:
Continue to use emachineshop software but somebody makes converter
software to transform the files into something useful

option 2:
Find a CAD program that is as easy as emachineshop


So my question on this forum is actually double:

1) Does anybody know something about this .ems file format, how
to convert it into something useful? This convert soft must exist
as emachineshop seems to outsource all their jobs. Has anybody
out there ( shops ) worked for them? How does it work? What kind
of files do you get?

2) What is the most easy CAD soft to learn and use ( does not have
to be free, but a low price is a plus ) and that the shops also like ( makes it
easy for them to generate g-code etc... ). I know this is also
a question of taste but there are so many programs out there. I
can't check them all. I need some expert opinion on this. Please
only reply to this question if you have already worked with the
emachineshop software and made at least one part with ( I mean
drawn a part, not bought a part ;-) ). You have to know how
easy emachineshop soft is to answer properly to this question,
you have to get into the head of a newbie.


Thanks,

[InspirationTool]

Ditch eMachineshop.

Take a look at lower end autocad look-a-likes like Turbocad. Or if you can pick up a used copy of autocad or autocad light go for that.

And also, you might want to take a look at my guide for writing RFQs:

http://www.jeffalbro.net/cnc/rfqs/

Good luck!

-Jeff

[Ken_Shea]

korntheuer,
Pencil drawings are really great for normally simple concepts and are quick, however there is another side to this.
You machinist in most cases has to take the time to draw you design in some form of CAD and then create the tool paths in some CAM program. This is likely costing you for the time he spends doing this. Perhaps better for you to spend the time to learn which you are probably going to do at sometime anyway.

You seem to pick up quickly on this and I believe it would be to your best interest to just take that necessary learning curve and learn one of the many CAD programs.

There are a confusing number of them out there from free to 10's of thousands of dollars, but which one depends upon your finances and needs.

I have two CAD programs one is Alibre and the other OneCNC. There is a absolutely free version from Alibre called Alibre Express that would be a great starting place into commercial drawing programs. It is quite powerful, not what OneCNC is in my opinion but the price is right. Why not get it, excellent tutorials come with it, You can also purchase at reasonable cost various module add ons for aspects you may need but not included in the free version.

Here is the link:
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/bannerlist.php?cn=119

Ken

[korntheuer]

Thanks for the replies, but they are not really helping...

I wrote this very long posting for a reason. I did not put in the time
to write this for nothing if I could have simply wrote a single line
"Hey guys, what's the best CAD program?"
Please read my full posting. I know it's long.

"Use AutoCAD" completely misses the point. Remember I have to
teach real newbies and I do not want to be an AutoCAD
helpdesk... it's not only my learning curve but the learning
curve of others to. Anyway, it's all in my first message.

If you haven't read the first posting in full, please do not
come up with an "answer" to question you did not read.

[Ken_Shea]

I wrote this very long posting for a reason. I did not put in the time to write this nothing.


Well, I can't speak for Jeff , but I will offer to give all your money back that I charged you for taking up my time answering in trying to help you.

Ken

[jhwatts]

In order to answer question 2 we need to know something about your needs as far as required capability of the software. Do you need an elaborate 3D package or do you simply need 2D capability. If you’re initial drawings are simple sketches then is safe to say you may only need a sketch type application. The cost factor and learning curve of the software changes dramatically between the two.

[gregsnovas]

here is a free 2d cad remainds me of autocad 12
http://www.cadstd.com/
and the upgrade is $25!!!!!

[gregsnovas]

http://www.freebyte.com/cad/cad.htm
here is a whole list of cad software

[jhwatts]

Personally I use QCad. It is just a good all around CAD software package and it is very straight forward to use. http://www.ribbonsoft.com/qcad.html

[dannyboysd89]

Why not use Alibre Express?

I use The Pro Version and am very happy with it. Express will be somewhat easy to use, and comes with many tutorials. You can go straight from pencil and paper to 3-D in one easy step. You then also have the ability to print the final 2-D drawings as a .PDF with any PDF Writer and you can do all of this for no cost at all (except the initial learning period, and maybe an Alibre salesman two).

Dan Brinkman

[korntheuer]

Ken, I'm sorry if I offended you.

I'm just trying to keep this thread to the subject. Threads wander of
after a few one line replies that are not to the point. I just tried to avoid
this. ( I'm afraid that I'm not very succesful... )

Sorry.

To the others: Please keep in mind that I have to teach this to others.
If you gave emachineshop a try you should understand what "easy"
means. I would prefer it if you could make clear how your solution
compares to emachineshop.

Anybody for option 1?

[gregsnovas]

Option1 ...emachineshop designed their software for one reason thats to sell there service and it is a great service to the right pepole

i would just try other software! there is plenty out there! just like there are opinions!

i use 3 major software packages here at work but i still search the cheap and free
autocad
bobcam
rihno