New guy needs CAD

[Mad Welder]

hi again Steve here's a couple of pdf's I did in Alibre a few months ago when I downloaded their free evaluation http://mkt.alibre.com/testdrive, However I myself didn't purchase their software in the end. The drafting isn't complicated it might give you some idea of the difference with 3D CAD as opposed to 2D CAD.
Most of the low to mid range priced 3D CAD will deliver similar results.


My drawings are'nt copyrighted as I was only evaluating the software so you can do what you like with them.

[autotechsteve]

Hello Steve!
I would suggest TurboCad. It has over 25 yrs of development and is a full blown cad program.
ECM2 is a free G code sotware program on linux, (something else you will need) download the CD-Rom install of the linux operating system with ECM2 preloaded at linuxcnc.org, you are going to need a dedicated computer for the gcode anyways,

good luck
Andy

Andy,
Thank you for the TurboCAD suggestion. I have been poking around on the net and so far I like what I have found. Do I need a dedicated PC for CAM or just if I decide to run a Linux based CAM program?

Hello Steve!
I think the learing curve is pretty big here, but a good idea. I think you should get an expert to help you setup your cnc machine and probably have an experienced expert CAD/CAM/CNC operator do the cad/cam for your first job, and help you load it into the computer you are going to use to run the cnc for your first cnc job.
It would be possible to learn cad/cam/cnc/electronics while trying to get a first big cnc job out the door, but some local expert CAM/CNC/CAD help at your shop temporarly to jumpstart you, would be very,very helpful, otherwise you might miss time deadlines.

Some people like Mach3 for CAM, its $175
ArtSoft USA - Home of Mach3 and LazyCam, video tutorials available
or ECM2 for free. No CAD program is easy to use, but you most likely will get a cad file from a customer anyways and load it into ECM2 (CAM) or Mach3 (CAM)..ect, rather than draw a cad file from scratch, but proabably more important is knowing CAM and your cnc machine. You need to know a eneough gcode to correct any errors.

That is a great suggestion to find someone to show me the processes from drawing to part . Since I don't even have the machine yet, anyone near Dallas Ga. mind having a new guy look over their shoulder for a few hours?
I am going to build the current order I have the old fashon way right now, I don't have enough time to get any CNC equipment up and running before my deadline.

From my biggest customer I get CAD files from him but I also get a lot of hand drawn ideas on napkins too. So I will need the CAD to bring his ideas to life. All of the CAD files they have are years old and they do not have any CAD design ability at this time. I also do alot of custom parts for custom car builds and those guys don't have CAD in their shops, just great ideas and a need to bring them to life.

Mad Welder, great looking designs and thanks again for helping me to understand different concepts of CAD. Any more progress on the V12 or just trying out the software?

I really like the layout of Rhino, CNCOne and TurboCAD so I am about to jump into the trial versions and give them a whirl. The one advantage I have for me now is for my first 2 years of college I was an ME major. At the time they taught CAD on Microstation so I do have some CAD experience as well as some AutoCAD experience in a high school drafting class. Hopefully its like riding a bike and I can jump back in after learning where the functions are located. Thanks you again guys for all of the help.
Steve

[Andy990]

Hello Steve
You need a dedicated computer to run the cam program to the cnc machine. Since the machine will run for long periods of time, you need to have a computer just for the cnc machine.
TurboCad is an autocad clone, similar to autocad. Cadcourse.com has training videos for turbocad. The 2d basic one is free! Put your cad program on the computer you use for email and general use.
Turbocad 12 pro runs on Windows 7 64 bit. Turbocad Deluxe 15 runs on Vista and should work on windows 7.
Sherline uses ECM2 on their mills and sells factory complete computers with ECM2 on Ubuntu. Linux is similar to Windows. You download the ECM2 software and Burn to Disk as an "image file". Ubuntu has directions on downloading and burning, but you download the complete Ubuntu Operating system with ECM2 preinstalled from Linuxcnc.org. Use Ubuntu 10.04 version. Get a Ubuntu book at the library or amazon. You probably wont need the book, but its nice to have.
Find an old computer at a garage sale and install ECM2 on it, just to see it.
Take a look at the price of some of these cad program demos before you waste any time fooling with them..they are Expensive!
BRL CAD is free, but with Turbocad you get a 900 page manual, free tutorials on the install disk, and something that is well know and works, Completly autocad compatible, all for $10. Turbocad deluxe is most likely going to do all the 3d you will ever need., if not use last years pro version for $200, beats the heck out of spending $2000.

[Andy990]

Hello Steve
Here is a review of Turbocad Pro by cadalyst, a Cad trade magazine:
TurboCAD Pro 14 (Cadalyst Labs Review) | Cadalyst
they give it very high quality classification, A-
I am not trying to sell it on you because I use it, but it works , its cheap, its first class software. Again, $10 Turbocad deluxe is well worth it.
Proabably the most common cad program in small shops.

[Andy990]

Hello Steve
Use a webcam repeater extension cord (33ft) and a webcam to get people to help you over the internet. If you have a dual core or better you can use a High definition webcam. Use newer (2010 or newer) Logitech or microsoft, anything else will have driver problems with windows. They give you the ability to show your machine, Cam screen, cad screen, your machine audio, your voice and realtime image to someone via msn live messenger (msn is microsoft..it always works..)

http://www.amazon.com/Active-Extension-Repeater-Female-Meters/dp/B002VG39BI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1316233478&sr=8-1]Amazon.com: USB 2.0 Active Extension / Repeater Cable A Male to A Female (10 Meters): Electronics

Logitech C250:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B003SDDR8I/ref=dp_olp_used?ie=UTF8&qid=1316233559&sr=1-43&condition=used]Amazon.com: Used and New: Logitech Webcam C250 - Web camera - color - audio - USB

Microsoft Lifecam Show:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B001DWI1F0/ref=sr_1_8_olp?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1316233687&sr=1-8&condition=new]Amazon.com: Used and New: Microsoft LifeCam Show Webcam (Black)

Microsoft High Definition Webcam HD6000 autofocus:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B00372567A/ref=dp_olp_all_mbc?ie=UTF8&storeAttribute=e&qid=1316233784&sr=1-7&submit.see-all-buying-options=see-all-buying-options&condition=all]Amazon.com: Used and New: Microsoft LifeCam HD-6000 720p HD Webcam for Notebooks (Black)

ps..tons of cad users at Ga tech and in Marietta, cam, cnc too

[Andy990]

Hello Steve
The best webcam to use in my opinion would be a Microsoft Lifecam Cinema. But for $15 you can get a used-like new Microsoft HD5001 or HD6000. The advantage of the autofocus is you can focus on small parts on your cnc machine to show over the internet.
again ,there HD webcams take computing power to run them, dual core or better, quad core preferred. You can also run more than one if you use different usb ports.

[blowlamp]

Just to clarify some points here: CAD is the drawing software, CAM is the software which uses the CAD drawing to generate the toolpaths and the G-code.

The software which actually moves your machinery is the Controller Software (not CAM) and the computer on which it is installed, is ideally used for only that purpose.

When you've tried TurboCAD, then try ViaCAD and you should see why I've suggested you use it.


Martin.

[moldcore]

If you’re only machining a few parts to start I would concentrate on learning how to program the parts on the machine’s controller and save your time and profits for a decent CAM system later when business warrants it . Most, if not all, machine controllers today have easy to use conversational interfaces. Back in the ‘80s that’s how it was done before all these CAM programs came along. Learning G code is a good thing but not really a priority when starting out if the machine has a good controller. I wouldn’t waste your time learning some of these cheap CAM programs, they are cheap for a reason. CAM programs are only necessary if you have a lot of different parts to program or if you have to do complex 3D surfaces. I would get a good CAD program first. Find out what they teach at the local schools.

[poster]

If you’re only machining a few parts to start I would concentrate on learning how to program the parts on the machine’s controller and save your time and profits for a decent CAM system later when business warrants it . Most, if not all, machine controllers today have easy to use conversational interfaces. Back in the ‘80s that’s how it was done before all these CAM programs came along. Learning G code is a good thing but not really a priority when starting out if the machine has a good controller. I wouldn’t waste your time learning some of these cheap CAM programs, they are cheap for a reason. CAM programs are only necessary if you have a lot of different parts to program or if you have to do complex 3D surfaces. I would get a good CAD program first. Find out what they teach at the local schools.

I agree with the above. I am also a "newbie" and am in the process of getting a CAM program, but only for slightly complex stuff that takes a lot of time at the control, and to prepare for the future. I'm a regular user of AutoCAD and recieve lots of parts in Solidworks and autoCAD, so it makes sense even just for organization of parts that we do often.
But i can say that the centurion control we use is extremely powerful and does not take all that much to learn to become productive. If your only doing basic stuff to even some complex stuff, or even 4th,5th axis, check into the control on the machine you buy, and you may find you won't even need CAD/CAM, but you can always upgrade later.

Also forgot you can install the control software on your comp and program away from the machine. and even verify it graphically

[Bob Adams]

I have been a small time machinist and small shop owner for some time. I do mostly one off stuff for custom cars and what ever else comes my way. I recently have sold a large production order, my first, and made a decent amount at the same time. Did it all on a manual Bridgeport. Well now they came back with another large order. I have decided it is time for a CNC mill in the shop. I have spent a considerable amount of time on CNCzone looking for a solution and I have found a couple of machines that will fit the bill and budget. Now I am on to finding CAD/CAM software to design and produce parts. I would love to have high end software but I am on a budget so I need something around $1000 or less. I have looked at Dolphin and BobCad. Dolphin seems pretty good, don't know about the CAM part. Bobcad has numerous horror stories but the BobCad section is packed with posts so it looks as if it is used by many. I am looking for any one who has walked in my shoes and can offer advice to a guy trying to get a small shop into the new age. Thanks again CNCzone
Steve

Hi, If your just interested in make 2D Parts. Checkout my website. You can save alot.
Bob A
CNC Programming Software Tools