Bad Machine Tool. What are our choices?

[bugzpulverizer]

On December 1st of last year we started up a new You Ji Vertical Turning Lathe 2000C. This machine looked like a metal eater when first installed. On December 4th the milling spindle froze. It was taken out rebuilt, froze again, taken out rebuilt, froze again, then they realized the thrust bearings were being installed upside down. Supposedly fixed that. Then the C-axis gearbox went out, they built a "heavier duty" gearbox for us and installed it. We could never contour with X and C axis correctly since that install. They changed a bunch of parameters, but could never get it to work. So now we can't mill contour with X/C, but at least we can index and drill right? Wrong. They say I can't use bigger than a 2.0" inserted drill or it will hurt the 35hp cat-50 spindle. Also now when I turn on the milling spindle I can feel it grinding inside. Also forgot to mention the $500 encoder it had on the C-axis, which was replaced by a $7000 encoder now. We've had this machine almost a year, and it's only ran maybe a month and a half. We have sent a letter to the machine supplier demanding our down payment back, tooling expenses, and that they remove their machine. They have refused, saying they are going to install a brand new machine for us. We have come to the conclusion that this machine won't do our parts, so we don't want another. They say sue us, but you'll have to come to Ohio to do it. We are in St. Louis. What can we do?

[Superman]

You've just done 1 thing they wouldn't like.

Bad publicity
drop a couple of nudges in the right ear ( someone thinking of puchasing a You Ji machine, for example ) or some info to a competitor that sells similar equipment and ask them to pass it around. Your down payment and tooling expenses may be payment lost, but fall under revenge satisfaction.

Obviously this should be a last resort if negotiation fails

[bugzpulverizer]

I don't know if revenge is worth $470,000.

[mactec54]

Hi bugzpulverizer

It seems that they the machine company is trying to fix the problem but after having the machine you have figured that it is to much machine for you which you should not have brought to start with, with there offer of a new machine you can't say no to it,
now if the new machine has the same problems then I would say you have the right to have them take it out, but first you have to have that in writting as well.

[bugzpulverizer]

I wouldn't say it was too much machine, but too less machine. If we were given the limits they are now giving us on capabilities of machine, we wouldn't be where we are now. They had drawings of our parts, material specs, etc. They say I am doing them wrong. Being a machinist, and a CNC programmer for 15 years, that is a bitter pill to swallow. I am basically trying to replicate how I did them before (on a 1999 20hp Okuma bridgemill.)

[mactec54]

If you are trying to compare a mill to a lathe there is no way the 35hp spindle on the lathe is enough to match with your 20hp mill spindle, 50/60hp on the lathe would be close to what you need I would say you need to get them to program one of your parts for you, & see how it runs if you have not programed 5/6axes before this is a very big learning curve 15years on 3&4 axes is not going to make it happen on 5/6 axes

[bugzpulverizer]

35hp on the mill spindle, 100hp on the turning spindle. I didn't say I only have worked with 3-4 axis. Sorry about the misunderstanding. Ive already programmed this machine. Not hard. Also we have an Integrex e-650 H II I program, so I'm up to speed.

[MSchubert]

I can see that this thread has died, but the original poster has never bothered to tell the board the real story, or the other side of this story.

He also has not bothered to mention what the outcome of this situation was.

It's very easy to spout off when your mad and slander another company and it's employees as long as you think that the internet allows for this without recourse.

It's also bad form to jump on the bandwagon to encourage slander when possibly not all the facts have been established for anyone to judge..

[universalfab]

You buy a chinese pile of garbage and don't expect it to make garbage? You deserve what you got and I think that's a good lesson for all of us in this country. It doesn't matter if you spend $470,000.00 or not, if it's chinese it's garbage!!! You could have bought a U.S.A. made machine for that price brand new, shame on you. Maybe he hasn't replied to any of his replies because he's out of business.

[MSchubert]

Originally Posted by universalfab MSChubert, your funny, go back to china.

universalfab, you really don't know beans about the machine tool industry, or machine tools.

Enlighten us all, with your knowlege on American made machines, where do these Americam companies buy their castings, what controls are American made. I could go on but, thank you I'll stay right here in Cincinnati the home of many once great Machine Tool Builders, and tell the truth about what is real and what is biased opinion.

[MrWild]

Originally Posted by MSchubert universalfab, you really don't know beans about the machine tool industry, or machine tools. Enlighten us all, with your knowlege on American made machines, where do these Americam companies buy their castings, what controls are American made. I could go on but, thank you I'll stay right here in Cincinnati the home of many once great Machine Tool Builders, and tell the truth about what is real and what is biased opinion.

that is harsh man. It is common knowledge that if you rebadge a Chinese machine with an American name, the quality goes up 100% just with that name plate. Better yet, buy all the parts in bulk, have your unskilled help assemble them, then claim Made in America. As one chinaman said, if you buy cheap, you get cheap. If you want quality, you pay for it, even in China. I'd be pissed if I paid 450k expecting quality and got junk.

Then again, if the quality machines in this class are selling for 1.5 mill, it's hard to complain when your 450k example has the quality of a HF X2.

[jashprecision]

It is general practice in the industry to pay more attention only when malfunction occurs. the cause may not be the machine tool alone but it could be installation / foundation too. In certain cases the desired results could be achieved by correcting the source, Please evaluate the situation thoroughly and find out the root cause of problem.