Why do people (and Democrats) overlook the trades as providers of a good livin

[naytep]

I just read an article on MSN (http://msn.careerbuilder.com/custom/msn/careeradvice/viewarticle.aspx?articleid=1156&SiteId=cbmsnhp41156&sc_extcmp=JS_1156_home1&GT1=10466) about jobs that pay $25.00 an hour or better. Machinist is not ranked; in fact none of the trades are ranked. Why do people (and Democrats) always overlook the trades as providers of a good living? In fact some of the wealthiest people that I know started out blowing glass, turning handles, fitting pipes, etc. Children from the time of berth are encouraged to use their brains (excellent idea) however parents do not encourage there children to use there hands. It is my belief (and I am never wrong, just ask me) that to succeed you need a good combination of the two, and the willingness to actually work. If no one is contributing to the “Hands-On” of manufacturing than who does everyone work for?
By the way I own my shop, and I have 8 people working for me, 3 of which make over $25.00 an hour. There are many Market Analysts, Social Workers (liberal tree huggers) out there who are unemployed. Any Machinist worth his salt doesn’t go without work for more than a couple of days.
I live in South Jersey were the few that work are conservatives, we are ruled by North Jersey which is full of liberals (that cant use there hands) who want to continually take my money and give it to those who don’t work.
Happy for the forum, it’s a great place to vent.
Thanks and I hope that this will spark some reply

[Geof]

I think if you go through this thread you will find a lot of answers to your question.

http://cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35587

[zippy]

the problem is that in most part of nj $25 an hr is only enough $$$ to never get any where. its fine for some one in there twenties not worried about paying for children etc... but it's just enough to slow the sinking besides manufaturing jobs almost don't exist in most of the state anymore just finance, pharm, and services. hell highway line painters make more than $25 and they get all that mob based side action. in most of the state a 2brm condo goes for $350,000. Yes plenty of people make less they've already given up on anyting but poverty and are just hoping there kids will do better.I manage to keep my yearly expences down to about 30,000 but people look at me like I'm nuts for it. I spent 20 bucks on mcdonalds for two people the other day with a couple of Ice creams at $25hr thats 48 minutes of work so your guys half to work more than half a day to take there wives out to a nice dinner that includes actual vegtables. thew only people I know that work hard can't even vote because there "illegal" thats why people want there kids to use there heads and go to school to learn how to steal and BS working hard will just get you beat up broke and pre aged I know my hands gave out before I was thirty from 18 hr days. I dont like it but thats the way it is. wake up unless you have daddy money $25hr doesn't get the job done and how much more can you pay your guys and make money? I used to make almost that much cleaning and fixing pools and it isn't enough in this state overtime is great but you shouldn't have to count on it. if your makng less then 60,000 in jersey and over thirty your in trouble unless you don't want children even at 60,000 you need to find more work for saturday

[ImanCarrot]

As an aside, the guy who did my job before me died unexpectedly last week. He had probably forgoten more than I'll ever know about machining and all that knowledge is now gone... because there was no- one to pass it on to. Bit sad really

[widgitmaster]

Question:
Why do people (and Democrats) overlook the trades as providers of a good living

Answer:
They would have to get their hands dirty!


Widgit

[cdlenterprises]

Let's look at what it takes to earn that $25/hr. To learn a trade, whether it's machining, plumbing, carpentry, etc. it takes years of dedicated training and hard work (damn, there's that "w' word again) If you're a die-hard and lucky you might end up being successful at it and maybe end up owning your own business, be it a job shop, a contractor or a builder. All three of which will earn you more than $25/hr.

Now let's take something a little different. With all of the talk about the housing market recently let's look at real estate. Take a 6 week course at a community college, buy a laptop, a pen and some business cards and you're ready to go. Average home price in the US is about $210,000 *.06 commision = $12,600 Assuming that you have to split it with another agent you end up with $6,300. Sell 2 a month and you've got a $150k/ year job (roughly $72/hr) Even better if you're in Jersey, or Florida, or some other ridiculous place where people pay way too much for way too little.

Not quite as gratifying to me as actually making something from nothing, but heck, who cares about being gratified at the end of the day. The goal is to get rich quick and the hell with the rest isn't it? At least that's what I thought capitalism was....

[naytep]

Modern Machinists don't really have dirty hands. Of course the exceptions exist (those who machine cast iron). As far as the income $25 an hour is $52k a year. What’s wrong with that? If you are single that’s plenty to get ahead on, if you are married then your spouse should be bringing in some cash also.
As far as the Realtors are concerned, last year they were all rich. This year they are all poor. No benefits, no unemployment to help when sales are down. That’s what 6-wks get you. By the way my wife is a realtor the 6 weeks was only the beginning, like most jobs you get out of it, what you put into it.
Those graduating with a BS or less are not making more than $35k ($15 an hour).

[JROM]

Geeze do I even want to get into this?
When I started out the guys that were teaching me were rolling in money.
Back in those days a toolmaker was the king of the trades. Not anymore!
A plumber makes more money then a toolmaker by far, go figure! Back then a top guy was makeing 25-30 bucks an hour and It has not changed since. I don't know why except that so much work has moved offshore and left all of us to scramble around for the scraps. If you are working for a manufacture your in big trouble because in china they will do the same work for about 10% of what you or I would take to do the same job. The only thing that keeps our boat floating is all the R&D work and product development work that the offshore folks can't figure out. The other thing that worries me is no one is training kids anymore (It costs to much) and when all us old guys are gone it will be game over for the metal working trades in this country. Also it seems to me that the kids today don't want to take the time to learn a trade, they just want all the goodies with no work. Just an old toolmakers view on things.

[Geof]

Originally Posted by JROM ....A plumber makes more money then a toolmaker by far, go figure!....

I think there is a fairly simple answer for this connected to the construction industry and the clout of unions. When plumbers go on strike the effect is felt immediately; same thing with electricians. When machinists go on strike who notices? Nobody for quite a while. To a large extent the wage you can command depends on the disruption you can cause to the economy by withdrawing your services.

[naytep]

People don’t feel the immediate effect, however with manufacturing the effect is actually 5x that of any other trade. According to the NJMEP (NJ Manufacturers extension program) every 1 job in manufacturing accounts for 5 jobs in sales, service, etc.
Maybe as machinists we need to become more arrogant. As of right now my company is booked through January. We must be needed, maybe even the class of people who are carrying the other careers on our backs.

[pixpop]

Why do people (and Democrats) always overlook the trades as providers of a good living?

Which Democrats are you talking about?

[2muchstuff]

It's like JROM said, we are scrambling around for scraps. We as a nation are no longer in the manufacturing buisness. We have become a R&D nation with all the computers and stuff. The part is either rapid prototyped inhouse or sent out to a machine shop to be made. Once perfected it is sent overseas to be mass produced by the millions and done cheaply.

We have always sacrificed ourselves trying to provide a good living for our families so our kids don't have to work as hard as we did. Well this has gone far enough such that our kids are NOW the ones pushing the keys on a keyboard, designing parts to be made overseas.

So what is to become of our great, great, great grandchildren.........



Another interesting tidbit.... Did you know? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHWTLA8WecI