business insurance

[Runner4404spd]

does anyone know of a company in michigan that handles small business insurance. basically i do design and fabrication. i design my own race car parts as well as do prototype fabrication and testing as well as full production fabrication of others designs.

thanks

Jerry
Superior Design Concepts

[NC Cams]

Try Arbor Insurance in Ann Arbor - I can't find their number due to misfiling in the Rolodex.

They handle our policy and one of their carriers specializes in small business and machine shops. I"d be disinclined to mention race cars unless they ask as this might be high risk/no way insurance. They will NOT insure anything associated with aircraft, especially product liability.

We do race car parts for engines and they don't seem to mind. But if you do the car, they might balk. Premiums are based on yearly sales and they regularly/yearly audit you. Good luck

[mxtras]

Originally Posted by NC Cams Good luck

Yeah - no kidding.

Shop around, too.

Scott

[Runner4404spd]

we don't build the complete car only certain engine parts and intake parts and fuel related parts (regualtors, fuel rails,) all parts 100% tested and documentation is kept on all parts as they are serialized. I came a from a military design house and alot of the QA practices rubbed off.

i am an engineer by trade and am wondering if i should be getting a PE license if that will mitigate some of the liability insurance costs. most of the work we are planning on doing to start is going to fabrication of common designs that are machined from SAE specs. i will be calling around monday to get more input from various insurance companies. (doesn't it matter if these parts are for off road vehicles and not meant for street use)

[NC Cams]

When I went shopping for insurance, NOT ! SINGLE AGENT ASKED IF I HAD A PE. Their insurance premiums are based upon the underwriter's assessment of the risk that they'll assume. Period.

In my case, I make camshafts. They don't burn, nor do they tend to set things on fire although they can pound the hell out of associated engine parts. I recall the agent asking certain questions on behalf of the underwriter. The fact that I did NOT sell retail but only to pro's or as subcontract to engineering firms we do proto work for sat VERY well with the brokers. Selling "retail" subjects you to higher risk assessment due less of a insulation against user stupidity. Following industry standards and/or the use of MIL or SAE specs might bode well in the eyes of the underwriter.

Now for a digression: Many years ago, when I first got involved in NASCAR, I recall meeting an engineer who was employed at a championship team of the day. He looked me straight in the eye and said, "the posession of an engineering degree is, to some extent, an oxymoronic hindrance in this business". I didn't understand his cynicysm but eventually came to do so.

Then and even now, a degreed engineer was and is still looked at with no small amount of resentment and/or disdain - although this has abated somewhat. We're often accused of being rocket scientists, or cheaters, especially when we win. Why? Because you HAVE to have cheated when you win with someting that is simple, well engineered and NOT of the norm that the average hack and slash racer would come up with.

I learned that you sort of have to develop multiple personalites when marketing to racers - you display the personality that THEY want to see. The guys in the pits want you to talk and act like a racer. With bankers, you talk to them in dollars and sense and TOTALLY devoid of racer vernacular. The sponsors, like an educated pro with the MBA lingo THEY expect to hear/understand. If you can switch from one to the other seamlessly, all the better.

The engr. degree provides credibility to the banker and the sponsors - the racers are looking for hot ticket, trick parts that work. PERIOD. Engineer and make good parts, simply MANDATORY.

BUT, Talk TOO sophisticated to the racer and they WILL NOT TRUST YOU. Talk down to them with too much techno-geek speak and you might as well talk to your fuel rails. Again, it depends if you are talking to someone at Hubley, Milan or MIS.

The techno-speak and level of same is usually best saved for the trade shows - again, it depends on who you're talking to and what you're talking about. Your best advertisement is NOT which SAE spec or PE license you have but WHICH racer is using your parts and who just won because of them.

I'm still beholding to some folks I met at NHRA and NASCAR in the late 70's/early 80's. They STILL advise me today. The kids today heard about me by reputation and referral, not via advertising or SAE papers.

You will NOT have any problem giving away free parts - we simply don't. We charge for the parts, we give away free advice and/or engineering ONLY as we see fit.

The big pro outfits will burn you as soon as look at you with free parts. Strangely, the typical racer will take free junk over the best well engineered, top quality parts, they've never bought or seen. Sadly, they may never have seen better parts that you might make.

I've been doing this since the mid/late 70's. Racing has gotten more sophistacted with the speed and technology, hence the need for better engineered parts - the degree has served me well in this regard, ESPECIALLY with regard to problem solving.

But, when it comes to "racer mentality", there is little differnce between the GENERAL attitude of the guys who raced at Indy this weekend and those who pound their stuff into the ground at the local bracket race. The money and fame are different but the mentality is pretty much the same: I'm here to race and it is your duty, honor and privilege to sponsor ME and be happy to do so.

The GOOD pro racers, have learned however, that good parts are worth the cost of admission. Free parts are worth what you pay for them. In the end, YOU have to be satisfied that YOU made as good a product as you can make.

Quality will show and eventually it will sell itself. 8 years sfter starting NC Cams, the work is now coming in regularly, We deliver on time and deliver jewelry. We also provide short lead times at premium yet reasonable prices. The effort is undying and the challenges large. The bills are paid, the help paid and the equipment is all mine. I don't have a spare dime and couldn't be happier.

If you have the "price, quality, delivery - pick two" attitude, you'll be relegated to competing in a cost sensitive market with someone who'l wrap $5 parts in $20 bills to sell them . Provide all three (P, Q & D) and you'll eventually find discering clients who'll appreciate and pay a premium price for your product.

You'll also be the most satisfied when someone says and means that your product is the finest that they've ever seen/used. That day is PRICELESS.

If you're in/near Ann Arbor look us up. Caution: The shop door is always locked (after all, no retail afterall). All visits are by appointment. Some stuff we'll share freely, ANYTHING about the technoloy behind race cams will get a blank stare. The whole story will cost you lunch and it is an interesting journey thru some challenging fiascoes.

[Runner4404spd]

Thanks for the heads, NC Cams i may take you up on that lunch. i would have no problem paying for lunch to gain insight into years of experience. in any case i do have a few clients and my expertise doesn't stop at race cars but stems into the hydraulics environment as well. i do custom vavle design, swivel fittings, etc as well as alot of non functional shiney parts that make people happy. i have two long standing customers that are not in the racing market and they keep the majority of the business alive, all my equipment is paid for so the only overhead right now is myself and my business partner and the usual day to day shop expenses.

[apache405]

Runner4404spd,

Along the lines of business insurance, make sure you company has a strong data security set up. That way no steals your customer's personal info, your proprietary designs, etc.

It is a different kind of insurance I guess.