machine decision

[red triangle]

Hi. New to the forum.
I need some help on deciding on a machine. I am currently a full time engineer who has a 400 sf machine and fab shop that I run out of my garage to do side work in. I do a lot of really basic prototyping for design firms and odd jobs that pay pretty well. There seems to be a big shortage of shops here in Seattle that have time for prototyping or are willing to do short runs. Some of my friends that own design firms have asked me to step up my game. I currently only have a manual RF mill and my grandfathers Southbend lathe (along with lots of other sheet metal and welding equipment). I am looking at CNC mills and think I have found the one I want. My background is as a machinist and fabricator in my youth and have been a manufacturing engineer and have managed a 30 man aerospace machine shop. I'm an OK machinist but am rusty on CAD and G code.
My shop is limited to 100 amps of single phase 220 and I don't want to use a phase converter. I want to pick a machine that will still be useful when I move into a real shop.
I don't care about conversational programming since everybody around here works in Solid Works and I will have to go with a CAD/CAM package anyway. I have 30K saved up and will have a bit more when I sell some motorcycles to make room for the new machine. The wife said it would be OK to finance more as long as the payments are not over $500.00 a month.

What ever machine I get will need to be able to do 3D parts about 50% of the time. Speed isn't that much of an issue right now. Other parts are for the extreme sports industry So I will need a work envelope of at least 38" x 14" x14". I really want a tool changer but would forgo that for the right machine.

The machine that seems to fit the bill is the Haas tool room TM-2P. The 6K vector drive spindle and the 20 station tool changer are nice for a single phase machine. I know 3D parts will be very slow with a 6K spindle. 400 ipm rapids are acceptable but I am a little worried about rigidity. I know I'm not going to be able to really hog things out and anticipate light chip loads. Are there any other reliable and accurate alternatives out there that fit my requirements? I'm having a hard time finding one.

I'd love to get a 3 phase machine like a bigger Hass or the Hyundai VX 500 but I just don't have the power to run a 20+ hp head on a phase converter along with my other power requirements (heater, big air compressor, etc..)

Sorry I can't add a link to the TM-2P, This is my first post here and apparently, that's not allowed until I post more.


Also, any preference between Solid Works native CAM systems or OneCNC?

Thanks,

[txcncman]

I have worked with Haas machines off and on for about 14 years. Basically they do what the specs say they will do (not what a salesman says necessarily).

If you have cash, and really shop around hard, you can find good used machines for some very decent prices. By good, I mean solid. You might have to spend some bucks getting some repairs done or even a minor rebuild. But for the right price, I think it is worth it.

[underthetire]

The last tm2 we got with some options ran~35k without atc. Seems to cut ok, not the most solid machine around, but better than some. Options you will want for 3d is probably a memory upgrade and network. Coolant pump is optional as well.

[red triangle]

Thanks for the replies!
Yeah, I realize the TM-2P wont be as rigid.
I have never been around Haas machines, so I don't know what to think. The other reps bad mouth the Haas machines; but I don't know if their opinion is valid or they just don't have the product that will meet my needs right now.

The TM-2P comes with a small coolant pump now. 1/8th hp I think. A 3/4 hp pump is an extra $1,400. Last time I had a coolant pump die on me, I went to the hardware store, bought a sump pump, drilled holes in a big coffee container and put sack cloth around it. So 1.4K seems a bit excessive.

They currently want $1,500 for an extra 750 MB of memory which I will need; but a gig of memory is worth less than a buck these days. $1,500 for 750MB is like memory prices in the 70s. Is Haas memory really that special? I don't know if the dealer will give me any wiggle room there. I could bring up the fact that I spent over half a million with the same salesman 4 years ago when I picked out new VMCs for my last company. He did say he could knock off 2% of list... (woohoo?)

I was hoping I could feed programs with a thumb drive, instead of having to have a computer next to the machine.....

If there is a comparable machine out there, I'd love to know. Right now it seems like I only have one choice. Looks like I will be 40K into this machine with the options I need.

[underthetire]

Let me tell you my history. Worked for both Mori Seiki and Okuma distributors. Both top end machines, can't beat them. They both sold lower line machines as well, like Tree, Shizouka, and others on the bottom end. Here is my take on Haas, which neither place I worked at sold them. We have a couple where I work now.

They are lower end machines for sure, however...
They run. Period. Haas is always willing to pick up the phone and help down in so ca.
They are about the easiest machine to fix I've ever worked on.
They have a very nice user friendly control.
They always have parts in stock when I need them
And They are made in the USA.

Downside is by the time you option up some of the machining centers you can almost buy a mori that comes standard with those "options".

Personally, I think the tm series are perfect for garage shops. There were machines we sold back in the day that were garage machines, however 1 year after we sold them the company went under or we could no longer get parts.

Big investment to get screwed a year or two or five down the road.

[red triangle]

Thanks Underthetire.

I was talking to a friend who had seen some local manufacturing shops with a few Milltronics machines and suggested that I look into them. Looks like the ones I have seen are all 3 phase.

Any word on their reputation/quality or reliability?

Thanks,

Patrick.

[uli12us]

Why not a fanuc robodrill or similiar. That are rigid, reliable machines, who you can find on the used market as well.

[Bruno34Slifer]

I was just browsing for relevant posts for my research and I happened to stumble upon yours. Thanks for the useful information!