CNC Mill Suggestions

[JMoto]

I am looking for a decent CNC mill to start a business. I have found some on eBay for around $1200 but I am not sure if they are very good quality or not. I am pretty computer-savvy so I would like something that has an ethernet port for network connectivity or some way to save my program files to a network location if possible.

What are some good brands?

Does anyone have any suggestions of what I can start out with?

Should I look for something water-cooled to machine aluminum?

I have done design work for many different engineering offices over the last 10 years or so but I have never personally run a mill. I have only seen others run, program and learn to program them so any advice would be much appreciated.

Thank You,
Jereme

[doorknob]

Your question is somewhat broad and non-specific, and as a result it will be difficult for anybody to give you much in the way of helpful advice. It is akin to someone asking what kind of car they should get, based on specifying only that it should run on "regular" gasoline. A bit more information about things such as what kind of parts you intend to mill, how big they are, and how many of them you need, might help to narrow down the field. However, you will find that it may be more productive to first take some hands-on classes in manual machining techniques before making any inquiries about what kind of CNC machines might be suitable for your work.

That said, $1200 would not ordinarily be considered anywhere near sufficient to purchase "a decent CNC mill to start a business". Perhaps what you have looked at on eBay is a CNC router, which is a different class of machine entirely. Whether or not such a machine would be suitable for you would depend on factors such as those described above, as well as on the quality and capabilities of any specific machine.

If you are truly considering getting a small "turnkey" CNC milling machine, one that might be usable for creating prototype parts as well as for doing small production runs, you might find the following engineering/design considerations document from Tormach to be a useful starting point in thinking about the capabilities to look for in such a machine:

Engineering Documents - PCNC 1100 | Tormach LLC | We provide personal small CNC machines, CNC tooling, and many more CNC items

[awerby]

Like Doorknob says, it's hard to advise you until you get specific about what you're trying to do, and what you're looking at. But normally, any ethernet port would be on the computer used to run the mill, rather than somewhere on the mill itself. Getting programs into it isn't a big deal - you can use a network if you want, but many consider them distracting at best and dangerous at worst. It's generally considered best to strip the machine computer down to the functions essential to running the machine, and get rid of anything that could conceivably interrupt it while it's running.

While the money you're talking about won't buy any new CNC mills (that I know of) capable of cutting aluminum reliably, a Taig or Sherline mill isn't a lot more, and would be a good starter machine for learning CNC on and producing prototype parts, even if it wasn't what you'd ultimately use in production. It's possible to set up flood cooling with either of these machines, although straight water isn't used - you mix anti-rust, emulsifying and lubricating chemicals into water to make the coolant.

Andrew Werby
ComputerSculpture.com — Home Page for Discount Hardware & Software

[JMoto]

Thank you for the advise and I apologize for the confusion. I would like to start with small aluminum parts no larger than about 10Wx10Lx6h to start. Motorcycle parts like coolant pump covers, brake levers, etc. This will be used for hobby initially but I would prefer to spend a little more and buy something that I could eventually use for production. What I have seen online ranges from $1000 new to upwards of $30,000 used but I am not making car engine blocks, I am just looking for good, known brands and some direction.

[DareBee]

"I would prefer to spend a little more and buy something that I could eventually use for production"

What you are spec'ing is a Haas super mini mill.
Be about $50K + about $10K in tooling (to get going).

[JMoto]

DareBee, as I mentioned this is for a "hobby" to start and I do not have 50-100k to sped on a mill (if I did I would not be spending it on a mill). I am looking for something that seems close to what Andrew mentioned like a Taig brand that is small and reasonably priced. I admit that I do not know much about this, that is why I am asking for help. Do you have any other suggestions for brands?

[doorknob]

The maximum size of the workpieces that you envision is going to require that you get something larger (and more expensive) than a Taig.

If you would consider converting a manual mill for CNC, then perhaps something like the Grizzly G0704 would do (although you would want to double-check the workpiece capacity to ensure that it is satisfactory). I do not have direct experience with the G0704, however there are many excellent build threads on this site. Since I haven't done a conversion, I would only be guessing at total cost, so maybe someone with direct experience will chime in and tell me that I'm wrong but depending on choices that you would make, it could probably be done for something in the range of $2,500 to $3,000 (but then tooling and accessories and software and PC would be an additional expense).

[Bob La Londe]

I have a Taig and its "ok". I have gotten a certain amount of production out of it, but its far from a production machine. The 2019 will handle X 12+, Y5+, Z6+, but you may find that you can't use all of that travel. due to vises, mounts, fixtures, etc on the table to hold what you are cutting. There is also a simple modification to bump Y to 6+.

The Taig costs $1730 with a controller, power supply, and stepper motors, but without a computer or software or much tooling. Figure $3k to be ready to go with one. Maybe a little less. Maybe a little more depending on how you tackle things.

Also, when I started learning to use my Taig I broke a lot of tooling. Better plan on some. It takes constant adjustment to get decent cuts time after time, and its kind of a pain to adjust. You have to take off the table and the saddle to adjust the Y axis backlash pinch nut.

I would probably go with a lot more machine from what you are describing. A Syil, Microkinetics, Tormach, or How-Mau might be better for you. Look at the machines. Look at the work envelope. Consider the spindle speeds, horsepower, etc and other specifications.

More power less speed for heavy cutting. Not so much power and a **** load more speed for running tiny little cutters in aluminum. It really is hard to specifiy a particular machine as good for what you want until you learn more and / or can express better what you plan to do with it.

There isn't much for a grand that I would trust to cut aluminum with any kind of reasonable production rate, but I do know one guy who is cutting aluminum injection molds on a Fireball plastic frame CNC router. I have to say I am impressed with his tenacity and his patience.

All of that being said, it depends on your goal and timeline for going from hobby to business. A Taig is an excellent learning tool, but not if you want to be making production parts at a production rate in a year.

[underthetire]

Not for anywhere near 1200 are you going to get a cnc mill to cut aluminum that size. You really need to figure about 5 times that cost for a lower end starter machine.

[annoying]

Thank you for the advise and I apologize for the confusion. I would like to start with small aluminum parts no larger than about 10Wx10Lx6h to start. Motorcycle parts like coolant pump covers, brake levers, etc. This will be used for hobby initially but I would prefer to spend a little more and buy something that I could eventually use for production. What I have seen online ranges from $1000 new to upwards of $30,000 used but I am not making car engine blocks, I am just looking for good, known brands and some direction.

If you talking along the lines of case covers and such, you had better add a 0 on to that 1200 and you'll have an old used machine maybe hardly capable and still be too slow. I don't want to knock down what you are wanting to do, but when you are talking say 3" deep pocketing with a machine you can get for $1000, it is going to push impossible to be anywhere near practical on time. Unless you only plan make a few things for yourself. I'd think it would take all half a day to do what some of us could do in less than 5 minutes.

I really don't want to sound cruel, but that is like digging for an in-ground pool with a shovel compared to using an excavator.

Don't let me shut you off. Keep you ideas flowing. That's what makes this world go round. Maybe you could start with the small stuff and work up to a bigger machine.

[txcncman]

Sometimes when people offer a reality check, it is taken as them being rude or offensive. Maybe they are. Probably they are not. It is what it is. A reality check. It would be more rude and more offensive to say nothing and just sit back and laugh at you and call you the village idiot.

If you really, really shop around. Craig's list. Ebay. your local machine tool dealers, etc. You might, just maybe find a descent machine for a really cheap price. Through my local (formerly) Fadal dealer, I was able to locate one of their customers that was selling a 2003 Fadal tool room mill. Took about 3 months and 1 machine tool show to find it. Purchase price? $300.00. Relocation/shipping? $500.00. Repairs and some basic tooling to get the first job out? $3000.00. So, for about $3800.00, I have an operating, low hour CNC mill sitting on the shop floor.

[Bob La Londe]

Sometimes when people offer a reality check, it is taken as them being rude or offensive. Maybe they are. Probably they are not. It is what it is. A reality check. It would be more rude and more offensive to say nothing and just sit back and laugh at you and call you the village idiot.

If you really, really shop around. Craig's list. Ebay. your local machine tool dealers, etc. You might, just maybe find a descent machine for a really cheap price. Through my local (formerly) Fadal dealer, I was able to locate one of their customers that was selling a 2003 Fadal tool room mill. Took about 3 months and 1 machine tool show to find it. Purchase price? $300.00. Relocation/shipping? $500.00. Repairs and some basic tooling to get the first job out? $3000.00. So, for about $3800.00, I have an operating, low hour CNC mill sitting on the shop floor.

And I bet you already had some knowledge and ability in the field before you started. I picked up a Hurco KMB1 for $500 a year or so ago. I might have it going this year. Same thing. Shopped. Etc. I am retrofitting it to a more modern control system. I expect I'll have about the same ($3K +/-) invested in it by the time I have it going or a little less. I wouldn't have dreamed of it as a first machine though. I learned the basics in my Taig, and retrofit a clapped out MaxNC over the last several years first. I've modified both. To be honest. I didn't have the knowledge or capability to to tackle a used machine and retrofit like this when I first started in CNC. It would have been a waste of my money. (I could scrap it out for more than I paid for it, but you know what I mean.)

The funny thing is I can do stuff on the Taig (the way I have it setup) in a day that would take the Hurco weeks.

Anyway, you give good advice, but buying a used machine is pretty scary for a first timer. It also may not be good advice for a first time owner if they aren't prepared to do their own work on the machine to start with. I know if I had bought my Hurco as a first CNC mill it would probably have gotten scrapped out.