Training... is this worth the $$??

[MarineMachinist]

I am getting ready to buy a new CNC Mill, I have 6 Machinist(VERY YOUNG) in my shop, None have any experience in CNC Setup, operation or programming. I know enough to get what I want and need out of a CNC (all self taught).

The company I am buying from has offered a 2 week on site training package of the entire shop... at a price of nearly $25K, this includes Airfare, lodging and per diem... (we are in Japan, they are coming from the states).

My question is in the title...

Thanks for any input!

Brad

[Shotout]

You have 6 people that have no clue on how to turn on, home the machine, set offsets, load programs, dry run those programs and proof those programs in a machine.

You are self taught, but have you ever used the control type of machine you are buying? If so could you train them to properly use the machine and it's features when it hits the floor?

$25K is a lot of money, but if it means being able to successfully start the CNC side of the shop would that make it worth it? More so if the alternative is everyone is trying to figure out how to do this that or the other with the likelyhood of crashing the machines and requiring expensive repairs.

If the amount is affordable to your business then I doubt you'd regret it. I'd of course ask, which I assume you have, exactly what the training consists of, areas of coverage, how in depth will that coverage be etc. Also consider the training is an over view of the machine, it's features and operation, not a "How to be a CNC machinist" course. That leads me to an alternative.

One other option I'd seriously consider would be to hire an experienced operator/setup machinist that is familiar with that control and "proper care and feeding" of a CNC machine and use the 25K to pay his wages while getting the CNC side of your shop up, running and showing a profit, plus you have then created a job and hopefully brought a new level of experience and professionalism to your shop which could benefit the whole business. I don't know if the Japanese gov't offers incentives for creating jobs or not, so you may get a benefit there too. An experienced person could set an example for your "VERY YOUNG" guys not to mention bring the one thing you are missing that could very well make a difference in your long term success, experience.

Originally Posted by MarineMachinist I am getting ready to buy a new CNC Mill, I have 6 Machinist(VERY YOUNG) in my shop, None have any experience in CNC Setup, operation or programming. I know enough to get what I want and need out of a CNC (all self taught). The company I am buying from has offered a 2 week on site training package of the entire shop... at a price of nearly $25K, this includes Airfare, lodging and per diem... (we are in Japan, they are coming from the states). My question is in the title... Thanks for any input! Brad

[Geof]

Training is necessary but that is a high cost. Also bringing in someone from the machine supplier may not be effective because they will probably be expecting some level of knowledge on the part of the people they are training.

I suggest trying to find someone local who will come in on a contract basis and give both group lessons and individual tutoring starting with group lessens intensively for a few days and then changing to a few hours per week for a month or two.

This was my approach when I switched my shop from all manual machines to all CNC and it was very successful. An important aspect to the training is that until the workers have had some introductory training and started doing some machine work they do not know what questions to ask. This is why you need the intensive training for a short while then a follow up in greater depth over a longer period.

And I must disagree with Shotout about hiring someone; contract with someone to do the training. If you hire someone you, the employer, are responsible for making sure they do their job and if they are inadequate you cannot easily terminate them. With a contract the Contractor is responsible for making sure they do a good job. You can specify goals in the contract and if they do not meet these goals you can terminate the contract and not waste money.

[Boots]

Classroom settings are not the place for training on CNC. It should be "Hands On" "On the Job Training" .Sure they might not be fast at first but you will have better results and spend less money doing "In House " training. Not every one "gets It" with the Classroom setting.

[Shotout]

Contracting would work well for training only and was my initial thought but I was thinking more long term for the shop. I read very young to be little or no real life experience as machinist and none as stated with CNC work. The OP doesn't state if he has experience or training as a machinist, only he is self taught to run and program CNC machines. From an experience stand point it sound like the shop needs some and a good machinist with experience could make or break a start up. I remember my own trial by fire and I also remember spending a fair chunk of money a time or two (or three) to replace expensive stock I scrapped from a lack of experience and not knowing enough. That is why I suggested hiring someone. Of course as you said you have to be selective, check references interview the person and then it is still questionable as to what type of employee they might be. Just my reasoning.

Originally Posted by Geof Training is necessary but that is a high cost. Also bringing in someone from the machine supplier may not be effective because they will probably be expecting some level of knowledge on the part of the people they are training. I suggest trying to find someone local who will come in on a contract basis and give both group lessons and individual tutoring starting with group lessens intensively for a few days and then changing to a few hours per week for a month or two. This was my approach when I switched my shop from all manual machines to all CNC and it was very successful. An important aspect to the training is that until the workers have had some introductory training and started doing some machine work they do not know what questions to ask. This is why you need the intensive training for a short while then a follow up in greater depth over a longer period. And I must disagree with Shotout about hiring someone; contract with someone to do the training. If you hire someone you, the employer, are responsible for making sure they do their job and if they are inadequate you cannot easily terminate them. With a contract the Contractor is responsible for making sure they do a good job. You can specify goals in the contract and if they do not meet these goals you can terminate the contract and not waste money.

[judleroy]

For 25k you could realisticly hire someone like me to come to japan for 2 months of on the job training. The machines would be programmed and run everyday as normal. You would get real life experiance with setup, programming, and operating for the whole period of time. Not to mention i'd really love to visit Japan.