finishing pine

[alarants]

Gentlemen,

I have trouble with finishing wood panels from pine. Wood grain is tending to rise and makes surface uneven.
1. Ihave tried alkyd based stain and covered it with mate lacquer. This is the best method but stain stays mate only if I cover the wood once. Second covering makes it shine. Also alkyd based stain does not spread evenly on the surface and brush marks will be visible.
2. So I tried water based colored lacquer. It spreaded much beter but raised wood grain. I had to use sander between layers of lacquer. This made color uneven as raising of wood grain was uneven. I got nice surface but not so nice and even color.
3. I tried water based coloured stain and alkyd based mat lacquer. I sanded slightly after stain. Suface stayed uneven and I had to put at least three layers of lacquer to get satisfactory quality. But I am targeting of excellent quality. Color was spreaded evenly and there was not brush marks.
4. I tried to cover wood with oil before water based stain. Idea is that if wood is oiled the grain should not raise. Minimum effect.

Is there any technique to cover pine and get excellent results? I have tried almost every lacquer and stain locally available so please do not advice any special trademarks. My choise is pine (pain?) only because of it is on sales. I am not making my wood panels myself and have to satisfy what is available on stores. It is a small place I am from and that has unfortunatelly caused low variety. This forum has helped me before and I am seeking any suggestions on that topic.

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[cncadmin]

They sell a "wood Conditioner" for wood that will eliminate the grain raise after the surface is sanded.

The First Step to a Beautiful Finish

Many soft or porous woods, like pine and maple, have a tendency to absorb stain unevenly. Minwax® Pre-Stain Wood Conditioner is specifically designed for use before staining new or bare softwood surfaces. It penetrates the grain of the wood to promote uniform acceptance of stain. Treating the surface with Minwax® Pre-Stain Wood Conditioner helps prevent streaking and blotching to help ensure a beautiful, even stain. To determine if you are working with softwood, press your fingernail against a hidden section of the wood. If you make a dent, the wood is soft and probably needs conditioning and Pre-Stain should be used to avoid an uneven stain color. Consider Pre-Stain Wood conditioner as insurance for your project. When in doubt, use it.
http://www.minwax.com/products/woodprep/prestain.cfm

[Al_The_Man]

Because pine is a bit bland in its natural state, grain wise, have you tried the propane torch treatment? It really brings out the grain, I have just completed a couple of items with clear urethane laquer finish, and would gladly post a picture and technique if anyone is interested.
Al

[ljoe1969]

Yes. Please post a picture.

[Al_The_Man]

I never found an article on this technique so it was a case of trial and error, Get a scrap piece to practice on first. I used a regular nozzle on the propane torch, it might be worth experimenting with different ones.
I found that always place the item you want to torch vertically if possible and start at the bottom and use brush like strokes fairly quickly in an upward stroke, do not stop in one place as you will get a black spot, if you want to darken an area up afterwards, using quick strokes, waft the torch into and out of the pale spot, it will come with practice. You will get small flames on the surface due to resin burning, so keep this under control. Use the normal precautionary measures you would normally use when using a propane torch as pine is highly inflammable!

[Al_The_Man]

I will try the attachment again.
Al

[Chagrin]

Two suggestions:

1) Wet the surface to preemptively raise the grain and then sand it again. This will reduce the effect when you go to finish.

2) Try a seal coat of dewaxed shellac - buy shellac flakes and dissolve them with alcohol. Shellac has a limited shelf life once mixed (approx 6 months?) so off-the-shelf products can be iffy.

[TXaggie]

Try Watco Danish oil (walnut). It penetrates well and stains evenly. It is a quick wiping finish, you only have to flood it on for ten minutes or so and wipe off the excess. Once it is dry you can recoat as much or as little to get the color you want and then finish with clear Danish oil, or any alkyd/oil finish you want, DONT use water over oil, you are setting your self up for a flakey finish. You can find Watco at the mega home marts or at at local hardware stores. I have used it for several years and have been very happy with the results, just be patient and be prepared to clean up with mineral spirts. Im glad you tried alcohol based dies/stains, many people don't realize how versatile and quick they are, they just dont work well with pine, especially with Southern Yellow pine, its just to hard to stain the hard winter growth rings at all while the soft summer rings absorb stain like a sponge, kind of produces a photo negative effect in the grain (not pretty). Of course any scratches, pits, indentations, or intentional reliefs are going to absorb more finish than the surrounding wood, which is another reason I would recomend the wiping finish because you can rub out the dark spots and flood on the light ones to even it out. If you have trouble with the first coat soaking in to much try a priliminary coat of clear Danish oil, let it dry for 24 hours, then wipe on the color. The first coat will seal the wood and prevent over penetration of the subsequent color. Watco is one of the few color/finish combinations I can recomend because it is easy to work with and it produces consistent results. It penetrates the wood and accentuates the grain and slightly slickens the "feel" of the wood while polys and laquers tend to cover up the grain and make it feely plasticy. I would avoid the poly/stain combos at all cost, they look like crap on pine because you have no control on color. You can tent clear Danish oil with any oil based stain to create a custom color, (saved my behind on several jobs).
PS oil wiping finishes dont trap dust in the finish because they penetrate rather than coating the top and they dont show brush strokes, you simply wipe off the excess and dust/junk before it dries and you will have a beautiful "in the wood" finish rather than just a top coat of color.

[alarants]

I have tried to use colored teak oil. It makes very smooth surface and no brush strokes whatsoever. I tried mahogany. There was two problems with it:
1. I did not got as dark surface as with stain. Much lighter than real mahigany. Maybe I have to add stain powder, have to test.
2. It is not very nice on putty. Maybe it is better if darker.

[Moondog]

Alarants....

Staining Pine can be difficult and is best done by spraying with a spirit based stain. Doing it by hand you can still get professional looking results.

Assuming you want to finish pine stained (colored?...

here's how we did it in our wood shop.

Firstly sand to about 400 grit ensuring you get all of you machine and previous marks out.

Next get a slightly damp cloth/sponge and wet out the pine. Not too wet.. just so you can see the color change. Allow to dry.

This raises the grain. You need to raise the grain because when you machine with a planer etc it lays some of the fibres down.

Then get your 400 sandpaper and cut of the raised fibres.

Thoroughly dust down.

Depending on the color you want Dark or light.

For Pine always use a Oil Based stain unless you spray it on.

For ametuers it is best to stain in a 2 part process.
For example.. if you want a Dark Oak color pour an amount of the stain into a seperate container and thin approx 50% with Turps.

To apply the stain get a lint free cloth and wear rubber gloves. You need to apply it quickly and along the grain. Where you have corners or where to different planes meet be careful not to apply too much or you'll get dark areas.

Once you apply the first coat go over it again this time with a dry cloth to remove any excess and to even the color.

Depending on the weather... wait 30 mins and apply the second coat, again drying off the coat.

Allow the stain to dry off around 30 mins and check for color.

An old trick is to spit on your fingers and rub a spot. This will show you what the final color will be before you apply the finish coat.

Allow to dry overnight preferably for an Oil Based Stain.

You should then be ready to apply the clear coats. This can be done with a brush or spray or simply a hand rubbed finish.

If you want to achieve an 'Aged look' you can obtain roofing tar and thin some with turps. Wipe on sparingly and wipe off quickly. If you do this wait 24 hours again.

A hand rubbed Wax finish is ideal for furniture that doesn't need waterproofing such as cabinets.

If you follow the above process you will get professional results..


The above method is not the only way to do it though and some of the previous posts are also very good. Find the method that best suit you.. Try lots of methods.

The general guideline is: Oil based stains work best on soft woods like pine and the spirit based stains for dense timbers like Oak.

The mistake most people make is to apply the stain in one go.... several thinned coats is best...

HOpe this helps.

cheers

Happy building

[alarants]

Hi,

I have tested the method described in the previous reply. It works. Colored wood oil is good. Just that you have to put 3 times more color substance in to the wood oil than in to the stain to get same color. I had to use wood oil because of oil based stains are not available locally. I did not understood why I have to wet the wood if I am not using water based stain. So I skipped this step. Still it is nice professional look surface. Many thanks for everybody.