G540 E-Stop

[kolias]

They are good Al, also the red button is twice as big as the ones I found which is good thing for Estop.

But he only has 1 set NC contacts, I will ask if he can supply an extra set because as I understand I need two NC contacts.

But before I order I'm waiting for John to reply to my previous post because now I'm lost with the transistor / relay schematics and dont know what I need to order. I think if I stick with the relay schematic I can use the Estop which I have

BTW when the say Ith - 10A and UI - AC 600V what the Ith and UI stands for?

[Al_The_Man]

BTW when the say Ith - 10A and UI - AC 600V what the Ith and UI stands for?

There is a bit more to it than simply the current/voltage rating, but for all intents and purposes in the type of application you are using them in this would be the max current and voltage you can switch.
Al.

[kolias]

Sorry John, I hope I did not confuse you with my previous posts

I never worked with transistors but if I was going to do it I would have solder the wires as needed and then hang the transistor somehow in my control box which will be made out of 1/4" plywood with 1/8” thick Aluminum face plate for all the push buttons etc.

Reading your drawings again I tend to prefer the one with the 120VAC relay. I got an account setup now with Mouser and its no problem to get that relay. I will also need one Estop with one NC contact and I think the ones I have would be ok (they have one set NC and one set NO). If the ones I have are not ok, then please look in my previous post and let me know if the one I found on ebay is good.

Also I don’t have the system on/off switch. Should this switch be a double pole like in Homann’s schematic or it is no required and the switch I have in my previous post would be ok?

Thank you

[john-100]

Hi Nicolas ,

the Telemecanique E stop switch , Al linked to ,with two N/C contacts is the best solution ! (and its simple)
its a more robust switch and should be more reliable
another plus for the Telemecanique E stop switch its 10A switch contacts

the transistor is just one way you to use one of the E-stop with the N/C and N/O contacts that you already have
as your using a wooden control box you can use three or four small brass screws as anchor points for the transistor and the wiring

a bit like the "breadboard" construction of the valve (tube) radios of yesteryear :-http://www.sparkbench.com/homebrew/bb/bb.html


using the mains powered relay is another way of using a single N/C switch instead of a two pole N/C switch (like the Telemecanique E stop switch )

the ebay switches in your post 57 at 11:45 PM last night look a bit small and the 5A current switch rating will be too small to carry the load required
without adding a relay


in the Homann design the combined mains inlet , fuse holder and double pole switch just simplifies the wiring

the double pole switch totally isolates the mains supply and ensures the live supply is disconnected if a non polarised mains plug is used
a single pole switch is OK when it switches the Live wire


John

[kolias]

Good day John

Since you mentioned in post 56 that “the G540 E-stop circuit would not be tripped” I will go with the 120VAC coil schematic.

So I will purchase the Magnecraft / Schneider Electric 9AS152-120 relay and the Telemecanique E stop single NC switch. When I get the new relay I may have to come back here for help in identifying the connections and find out which wire goes where.

Regarding the double pole mains switch, I would like to use one but I can’t find any “combine mains inlet fuse holder double pole switch” shown in Homann’s design. Perhaps Al knows one and hopefully he will let me know (or an alternative).

I love the sparkbench link you provided John. Perhaps after this cnc project, I will revisit that site and get to know more about the SW radios

Much appreciate your help John

[Al_The_Man]

Regarding the double pole mains switch, I would like to use one but I can’t find any “combine mains inlet fuse holder double pole switch” shown in Homann’s design. Perhaps Al knows one and hopefully he will let me know (or an alternative).

Although fused disconnects are available they can be expensive.
Do you have a reference for post for the DP Switch? Are you switching 120vac or 240? if the 120v you only need SP switch and single fusing, and these can be obtained from Home Depot used in Air conditioners etc, and a separate fuse holder can be obtained usually fairly easily such as Ferraz-Shawmut design.
Al.

[john-100]

Hi Nicolas ,

I've had a look at the Mouser web site and the only combined mains inlet , fuse holder and switch I found has a built in mains filter as well :----

FN281-10-06 Schaffner Power Entry Modules

the filter makes it a little more expensive than the one I was looking for

I guess plan B will be to use separate parts


John

[kolias]

Al, the only reference I have of the double pole switch is on the Homann’s schematic which John posted on post #2. But you are right, the Homann design is from Australia and they use 220V there and I will use 120VAC

Yes I can get what you say from Home Depot but I also like what John found on Mouser and since I will get the relay from them I might as well get this switch which looks nice too.

I was thinking to get the FN 281-10-06 (Flange mount, 10A, single fuse)

[Al_The_Man]

I was thinking to get the FN 281-10-06 (Flange mount, 10A, single fuse)

The only thing I would comment on it is only rated at 10a, and if this is for the main system supply, the L/C suppression networks usually goes on the input to noise sensitive equipment such as PC supply etc, if connected to the main supply any electrical noise is still contained within all the circuits after the network, IOW, this unit would only help prevent noise getting back on the AC line?
Al.

[john-100]

Hi Nicolas ,

I've just had a look at uk.Farnell.com and found the Bulgin switched IEC inlet ,
then followed the link to Newark Element 14 in Canada

BZH01/Z0000/01 - BULGIN - FUSED IEC POWER CONNECTOR, PLUG | Newark/element14 Canada

John

[kolias]

ok, thank you both for the answers but there is more to that switch after a lot of thinking………..

So we made it work nice after all these emails but now it also has to look nice doesn’t it? Looking at both of these switches, although I like them, but the female plug on the switch I just don’t see this plug to look nice in my panel.

I have a preliminary Acad drawing of my panel attached here and this female plug has no place in the panel because all connections are underneath and therefore I see no use for it..

So for now I will do what Al suggested; get the parts from Home Depot and that’s what my panel shows in the top right corner. Things may change in the future because now I’m in the design stage

Thank you both so much

[kolias]

I'm going to purchase the 24VDC power supply unit. Besides the relay #3 this PSU will also feed about 6 push button lights and 2 small cooling water pumps (spindle cooling + cutting fluid cooling) which I have not purchase yet.

Any idea what Amps I should get this PSU?

[john-100]

Hi Nicolas ,

do you have any information for the pumps

I would not be supprised if the start up current for the pumps is 4 or 5 times the normal running current

the power supply will need to be able to supply the starting current for the pumps plus 200mA for the relays and indicators
( 45mA per relay, plus 20mA per indicator -assuming they are LED's)

John

[kolias]

Thank you John

I just looked and most of the pumps on ebay are 12VDC, rated current 0.66A to 2.1A, for about 100GPH. They are very small and sufficient for what I need and also have some for 120VAC but I don’t like to put 120VAC into a water pump.

So it looks like that I will have to get a 12VDC psu for the water pumps plus I have two 4”x 4” computer case fans which I will install inside my control box.(no Amps either on the fans, just says 12VDC) plus 8 white LED’s which will light the cutting area

I have no info on the push buttons if they have LED’s or not but I don’t think so. Have not been able to open them

So I was planning to get a 12VDC / 10A psu and a 24VDC / 5A psu (Looks like these units they come in 5A increments)

Do the Amps sound ok?

[john-100]

Hi Nicolas ,

the 24V 5A power supply is more than you need

I'd expect the 12V 10 A power supply will be OK
but it will depend on th startup current for your 12V pumps
and the current for your LED lighting
fans will take about 0.2A each

one thing to check is the DC current switching capacity of your switches

you may need to use the switches to control relays that actually switch the pumps on and off

John

[kolias]

I now have both psu (12VDC/20A & 24VDC/15A) plus the Mouser relay and the Telemecanique Estop with one NC contact.

I also got the attached switch (see pics attached) which I plan to use it as the "System on/off" but there is no way for me to know where to connect the Black, White & Ground AC wires on this switch. The markings on the switch say:
HZ5B model combination switch
AC-3, 4kw, 400V, Ui:380V, Ith: 10A, IEC: 60947-3
The terminals marking are shown on the pics.

Can someone tell me if this switch is ok to use as a system on/off switch plus where to connect the wires?

[Al_The_Man]

It should make a suitable disconnect, although it is bi-directional from centre off, you could parallel two or more sections to up the current carrying capacity if needed.
It appears to be a 4 section 8 contact change over switch, so if you are switching 120VAC then you should only switch the live conductor, the neutral is passed through non-switched, also the same with the ground conductor, IOW the only wiring to the switch is the 120v live.
Each section shown is closed when switched to each respective sides.
If using 240vac input to the system, then you would use two a live conductor on two separate sections.
It is simple to continuity test with a meter the operating contacts for each direction.
Al.

[john-100]

Hi Nicolas ,


If the switch is as I expect

when the switch is turned anticlockwise
terminals 1 and 2 are connected together
and terminals 5 and 6 are connected together
( picture only shows terminals 1 to 4 )

in the middle position the switc is off ,no connections are made


when fully clockwise
terminals 3 and 4 are connected together and terminals 7 and 8 are connected together

John

[kolias]

My continuity meter's battery is gone and tomorrow I will get a new one to verify the terminals

Thank you both

[kolias]

Gosh I forgot that I had ordered this switch too, sorry. This one also has 8 terminals; 4 of them are marked 1,3,5,7 and the other 4 are marked 4,2,8,6. The markings on the switch are:

LW28-20 D202.2
Ui 660V
lth 20A
Ue 440V 240V
le
AC-2 AC-3 AC-4 AC-15
7.5 5.5 1.5 4A/5A

I will assume from the numbers that this switch is better than the other one but I don’t know what the numbers under (le) means (AC-2 =7.5) etc

Can someone pls confirm if this one is ok and then I will have a choice when I build the control box which one to use