Introduction and Inquiry aboout Composite Machining

[jreinke10]

Hello all,
My name is Jack and I'm a sophomore at University of Florida. Most my knowledge is with waterjets, additive manufacturing, and a little on CNC mills, but I came to this forum in hopes of learning more. However my main reason here is to inquire on machining composites, particularly carbon fiber ones. I have created a carbon fiber composite in which I hope to machine into a fly fishing reel. Unfortunately I have had terrible amount of luck inquiring to local and regional machinist. Most never get back to me on an email or when I request for a quote. Those who do rarely follow up with more than one email. I was hoping it would be possible to get a recommendation or referral to a group that would be willing to machine a carbon fiber composite in which I have created. For obvious reasons its been difficult to find people who work with composites, let alone someone willing to use a customer fabricated one. Leads or help of any kind is much appreciated. Thanks

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[handlewanker]

.....and just why would you want to go to an exotic material like carbon fibre that is difficult to machine and would cost the Earth to outsource?.....just curious.
Ian.

[mactec54]

Hello all,
My name is Jack and I'm a sophomore at University of Florida. Most my knowledge is with waterjets, additive manufacturing, and a little on CNC mills, but I came to this forum in hopes of learning more. However my main reason here is to inquire on machining composites, particularly carbon fiber ones. I have created a carbon fiber composite in which I hope to machine into a fly fishing reel. Unfortunately I have had terrible amount of luck inquiring to local and regional machinist. Most never get back to me on an email or when I request for a quote. Those who do rarely follow up with more than one email. I was hoping it would be possible to get a recommendation or referral to a group that would be willing to machine a carbon fiber composite in which I have created. For obvious reasons its been difficult to find people who work with composites, let alone someone willing to use a customer fabricated one. Leads or help of any kind is much appreciated. Thanks

How big are the pieces you want to machine, and are they easy to fixture / hold

[jreinke10]

The exotic material has to do with the benefits over aluminum in the application of a fishing reel relating to weight and anti-corrosion. The reason for machining is that there is currently no better process to shaping the composite into a fishing reel.

[jreinke10]

They're cylinder shape with around a 4" diameter. As far as how easy it is to fixture its difficult to say due to my lack of experience, i would imagine its not too bad due to the amount of holes and armatures it has.

[ger21]

You'd be better off moulding them, maybe?

[LeeWay]

Machining exotics is not as straightforward as you might think. That said, I think it can be accomplished rather easily on a router. Carbon fiber isn't really cut by the machining process but rather filed away using diamond or carbide burrs.
I still think the effort may be a bit futile if you are looking for a reasonable cost replacement for aluminum. The coatings available for aluminum now really diminish any corrosion aspects at a lower cost than carbon fiber. Especially a home brew mix. You would certainly have to include UV resitance to the soup too.
If you are just wanting to do a one off or two off build, then you could consider it a hobby and the price may not bother you. Then again, guys that buy nice Flyrods may pay the difference in cost without batting an eye.
There are a few guys on here that work with carbon fiber and know enoough about it to offer a quote, but I have limited experience with it so far.

[handlewanker]

.....LOL.....why the heck don't you make it out of stainless steel if corrosion is a problem......the volume of metal in a reel's spool is so small that any weight saving compared to the complexity of carbon fibre manufacture is negligible.

Coupled with the fact that stainless can be investment cast or turned on a CNC lathe very easily....... and there's the composite method of Tig welded components too that would be even lighter than CF, more durable and crash resistant and can be polished if necessary..

On the other hand, what have you got to lose by trying......money....time etc being of no consequence......the ROI is about 1 in a 1000.....better start sweet talking your bank manager now.......maybe a Kickstarter program even.

UHDP materials would be easier to manufacture with and volume outsourcing is the way to go.....unless that is, you are envisaging a niche market that subscribes to exciting space age materials or just something different as long as it's different.....and hang the cost.
Ian.

[mactec54]

.....LOL.....why the heck don't you make it out of stainless steel if corrosion is a problem......the volume of metal in a reel's spool is so small that any weight saving compared to the complexity of carbon fibre manufacture is negligible.

Coupled with the fact that stainless can be investment cast or turned on a CNC lathe very easily....... and there's the composite method of Tig welded components too that would be even lighter than CF, more durable and crash resistant and can be polished if necessary..

On the other hand, what have you got to lose by trying......money....time etc being of no consequence......the ROI is about 1 in a 1000.....better start sweet talking your bank manager now.......maybe a Kickstarter program even.

UHDP materials would be easier to manufacture with and volume outsourcing is the way to go.....unless that is, you are envisaging a niche market that subscribes to exciting space age materials or just something different as long as it's different.....and hang the cost.
Ian.

They are already made from Stainless steel, and lots are already using Carbon Fiber for most parts of fishing Reels, Carbon Fiber is about 4 times cheaper than Stainless to manufacture for the same product, Carbon Fiber is also easier to machine than 316ss

For those that have not machined Carbon Fiber I guess it would be difficult to know any better, there is nothing exotic or difficult about using Carbon Fiber

[LeeWay]

Okay.
Do you know enough to give him a quote?

[mactec54]

Okay.
Do you know enough to give him a quote?

Sure, I would have to see what he wants to do and what his part shape / size is like, I would mold the part, if I was doing it, most parts like this are compression molded or injection molded

[LeeWay]

Right, but that is not what he is asking for.
He wants someone to cut out his design on his already homebrew layup CF. Still a lot of unknowns at this point.

[Jim Dawson]

I built some carbon fiber AR15 parts for a guy. I found that treating it about like aluminum works well. Carbide tools, and in that case used kerosene as coolant just to eliminate the dust because that's what I had in the tank. The biggest challenge was hanging on to the part, not because it was carbon fiber, but rather the shape and thin cross section.

Dust control is the biggest challenge, you don't want that stuff flying around.

jreinke10, if you want me to quote your project, send me a PM. I'm not local, but I do projects like this.

[jreinke10]

Really appreciate all the sarcasm, very helpful. Stainless steel would be much too heavy, in addition this composite is not your typical woven sheet that delaminates as easy as your imagining and does not have the same issues as what you are likely imagining in regards to a composite due to its process of manufacturing in the first place. I have a plethora of market research pointing towards peoples interest in such a reel, but I did not start this thread in hope of hearing peoples opinion on opportunity cost and business risk. I'm more than aware of the situation and the externalities surrounding it. The business insight is unnecessary.

[jreinke10]

That may indeed be solution i might have to further invest. Obviously molding and tooling is very expensive in combination with the high viscosity of my parts, might make it difficult to mold. Thanks!

[jreinke10]

It's actually not a layup, that's one of the things that makes it so different and part of the proprietary manufacturing of the actual composite itself. However I do agree there is lots of unknowns.

[jreinke10]

happy to see someone knows the benefits! It will surely be a material seen more and more as time goes on.

[mactec54]

That may indeed be solution i might have to further invest. Obviously molding and tooling is very expensive in combination with the high viscosity of my parts, might make it difficult to mold. Thanks!

Compression molding is not so expensive, it would depend on the part design, the process is similar to layup, but more exacting

[LeeWay]

I have done some 3D printing with carbon fiber embedded Pet G plastic. They make pretty strong rigid parts, but not as strong as other methods and filaments.
There is also a printer that actually embeds CF thread into nylons. Kinda ugly, but incredibly strong parts. Not what you are looking for. Just passing along the fact that CF fabrication is heavily researched in many areas of applicaton, so I think you are correct about seeing it in wider range of use in the near future.

[mactec54]

Right, but that is not what he is asking for.
He wants someone to cut out his design on his already homebrew layup CF. Still a lot of unknowns at this point.

As I said sure, anyway he wants it, unknowns are only something in ones mind, there are no limits, think outside the box is the only way to proceed sometimes, if you can't think outside the box you are lost before you start