Beginner in CNC trying to decide on number of axes

**A_Camera** · 05-16-2017, 04:10 PM

Originally Posted by doc7

You guys are awesome.

I only have one request to make. Could you help me configure a setup in terms of price which is +/- 10% of what it would cost in the end. In this price I want to include the body of the machine, all the motion control hardware that I'll need (motors, power supply, controller board etc), the motion control software that I'll need, the spindle and the cutting attachments, assuming I'm not forgetting anything of importance.
This will be incredibly useful for me as the price will dictate what I'll need to do with my finances in the next 1-3 months.

I'm looking for a kit with the following characteristics:
-0.5m*0.3m*0.3m to 1.5m*1m*0.5m work area
-3-axis setup
-slotted floor/base to attach vices/fastening equipment

A rough estimation will suffice but, nevertheless, it will be crucial in terms of future budgeting.

When it comes to cost estimation that is a bit more difficult... I don't think I can help you with that. Sorry.

**ger21** · 05-16-2017, 08:36 PM

Could you give me some pointers where to look for an alternative to the Ox. Or if you could direct my attention to certain producers/kits, that will give me a starting point too.

Unfortunately, virtually all of the kits that you'll find are for lightweight hobby level machines.
CNC Router Parts is the only kit machine that's at another level. But shipping to the UK would probably be prohibitive.

As for the spindle.
Most people use 2.2Kw spindles from Ebay.

**doc7** · 05-17-2017, 01:52 AM

So either I buy a semi-professional/professional machine and be happy with it or I get at it and build a solid machine from scratch?

**A_Camera** · 05-17-2017, 02:50 AM

Originally Posted by doc7

So either I buy a semi-professional/professional machine and be happy with it or I get at it and build a solid machine from scratch?

...or you buy something smaller, use it for learning the pitfalls and for making parts for the upgrade and THEN build you own in the size you want. I am pretty sure that something like this is enough for you to start with.

https://www.omiocnc.com/products/x6-2200l-usb.html

**handlewanker** · 05-17-2017, 04:01 AM

A budget a budget, my kingdom for a budget...........I would put a figure on a CNC router that would be a good start out at A$2,000.......and that's just for the machine with a grotty controller that you might be able to sell on EBAY if you can find a nut case to buy it.

A warning.....don't wait for Brexit to happen or the price of most things will go out of the window.

The next thing is invest in a Gecko whatsit and go from there.

Too rich for you?......then anything smaller IS cheaper, like a 3040 CNC router, but you have the same problem of the controller in the end and a machine that you outgrow and have to sell on for half the price.........and that is without the grotty controller it came with, so that makes it almost a give away item......a poor man always pays twice etc.

I'm thinking in terms of a 6040 CNC router as a start out, it comes with linear rails and balls crews etc......if you want to go bigger you're reaching for the stars....better come down to Earth and learn to work with that size machine and then go for broke .....you may like it's capacity so much you would want to stay with it......worst case scenario is if you want to sell it on it can go for a decent price as it's very good value by any stretch of the imagination.

BTW, on the topic of a 4th axis.....it's just a rotating device like a lathe with a lockable powered headstock and a tailstock that you can use in a static mode and have it as a work positioner for all round machining without having to remove the part and reposition it as you would in a vice etc.

Doing 3 D stuff is a different kettle of fish for a start out exercise, but you can do it if you need to by just buying a 4th axis later and using the necessary software etc.

For example if you had a square block of "material" and wanted to put a couple of holes in each side, normally this would take 4 set-ups with a vice, but a 4th axis in a static mode can rotate the work-piece to present all 4 sides in one set-up without removing it.....that's the way I see it.

One thing's for sure, if you want to go DIY and copy the 6040 CNC router design implicitly, you would not be able to even buy the materials for the EBAY buy-in outlay, and you still have to have the exact design specs to make one.

The end message is......grasp the nettle, suck the dummy, pawn the family jewels etc and you'll be machining in CNC mode within a month........procrastination is the thief of all time.
Ian.

**doc7** · 05-17-2017, 07:33 AM

I like the way this is going.

@handlewanker
6040 CNC router looks good to me. I googled it and aliexpress showed up first but I'm sure there are reputable distributors out there.

@A_Camera
What you have linked also looks quite good to me.

Please walk me through the differences between the 6040 router and X6-2200L-USB CNC Desktop Engraver. They both look good to me as a starting point and the price seems right to me. Also, I have pretty much decided that I'll start with something like this...unless someone convinces me otherwise, that is.

**A_Camera** · 05-17-2017, 09:01 AM

Originally Posted by doc7

I like the way this is going.

@handlewanker
6040 CNC router looks good to me. I googled it and aliexpress showed up first but I'm sure there are reputable distributors out there.

@A_Camera
What you have linked also looks quite good to me.

Please walk me through the differences between the 6040 router and X6-2200L-USB CNC Desktop Engraver. They both look good to me as a starting point and the price seems right to me. Also, I have pretty much decided that I'll start with something like this...unless someone convinces me otherwise, that is.

I don't know what you mean by "6040 router". 6040 is just a size, it comes in many different versions. I can't really walk you through, but you should be able to check the specifications. The one I linked to uses ball screws and real linear guides, as opposed to many with just round rods and trapezoidal screws.

**doc7** · 05-17-2017, 10:35 AM

Thanks for clearing that up. I thought 6040 was a class or something...

For info's sake I went on ebay and looked at the routers there.They seem to be half the price of Omio's and I was wondering what's really their deal. They are obviously saving from something but I don't know these machines well enough at this point to get the details. Could you spell that for me, please. Here's a link - 6040 CNC ROUTER ENGRAVER 4 AXIS ENGRAVING CARVING DRILLING MILLING MACHINE 1500W

**A_Camera** · 05-17-2017, 12:39 PM

Originally Posted by doc7

Thanks for clearing that up. I thought 6040 was a class or something...

For info's sake I went on ebay and looked at the routers there.They seem to be half the price of Omio's and I was wondering what's really their deal. They are obviously saving from something but I don't know these machines well enough at this point to get the details. Could you spell that for me, please. Here's a link - 6040 CNC ROUTER ENGRAVER 4 AXIS ENGRAVING CARVING DRILLING MILLING MACHINE 1500W

Once again, I can't spell it out for you. You MUST be able to read and understand the specifications and compare the two and see differences, I can't do your home work for you. In short...

This Omio looks to be considerably better build, have more Z clearance, more weight, better linear rails, and all ball screws are 1605. Obviously, the cheaper eBay versions are cheaper for a reason since all are made in China, so labour costs are the same. You can buy cheap but rarely both cheap and good. But... as I said, you must read the specs, decide how much money you are willing to spend, but don't expect the same quality unless you pay the price. I don't have any experience with these, since as I said, I built my own, and I did not regret that decision. However, if I would not be able to build one or needed one very fast then the one I'd buy is the one in my link, or another with similar specs and build quality. But I can't guarantee anything, except saying what I'd buy for my own needs.

**doc7** · 05-17-2017, 01:25 PM

Thanks for your time A_Camera. With all due respect, I asked for a comparison because I can't compare them effectively myself, not because I expect someone else to do my job for me. For the record, I wasn't considering buying a machine from ebay at all, I saw it as an educating experience for me and I went for it.

Until something better comes along as an alternative Omio will be my choice of machine.
I have been looking at both the X6 and X8 and I lean more towards the X6. The X8 is bigger and that's nice but if I ever upgrade to larger work area I'd like to have a taller machine too.

The other thing I'd like to ask for advice on is which flavour of X6 to choose? There's the X6 USB and the X6 EPL. In the USB version a computer links to the router and feeds it gcode and the EPL version reads a storage device with gcode on it, if I understand correctly. I don't use computer for my 3D printers and I like it that way but I'm worried that the EPL version allows for less versatility in terms of the program that spits the gcode. Is my thinking even right? I'd like to get a second opinion on that.

Edit: Links to X6 USB (https://www.omiocnc.com/products/x6-2200l-usb.html) and X6 EPL (https://www.omiocnc.com/products/x6-2200epl.html)

**Tomcat104** · 05-17-2017, 02:42 PM

Good advice!

Buy as good of a machine as you can justify...and get to work!

**handlewanker** · 05-17-2017, 02:45 PM

Hi, I would advise going on UTUBE and browsing the vids that show the assembling, set-up and running of the 6040 before you do a decision making......the 6040 configuration means the spindle can cover a table area of 600 X 400.....600 being the Y axis or front to back table length and the 400 being the width of the table or X axis. etc.....the table does not move but the gantry does.

There is another 3 axis one at 6090 which is dearer again, approx. A$2,500.....but it does give you more table size......600 wide X 900 long.....you could almost lay down and sleep on that one. if you were one of Snow White's dwarves.

While we're on the gantry models, you can also get a moving table type that has a fixed gantry and a moving table......this is a much stronger configuration as the gantry side supports can be really massive as they don't move and are attached to the frame sides directly........models unknown, but they are out there......they are also twice as long as the moving gantry type to get full table coverage.

The other thing is...... practically all, if not totally all of the moving gantry models have air or water cooled high speed spindles, which automatically cuts out any idea of machining steel as the low down torque is non existent and spindle collet sizes max out at 15mm......you could invest in carbide but the aluminium frame of the gantry would not be rigid enough if you have a dig in, especially if you are to the right or left of the table as the gantry is centre driven.
Ian.

**doc7** · 05-17-2017, 03:04 PM

Yeah, I get your point. Also, thanks for mentioning other types of geometry, it gives me depth of thought.

The general way I would ideally approach this entire business is to buy a decent, not too expensive router now and when I have decent amount of experience build a great machine myself. We'll see how well it all turns out, hahah.

**A_Camera** · 05-17-2017, 04:02 PM

Originally Posted by doc7

Thanks for your time A_Camera. With all due respect, I asked for a comparison because I can't compare them effectively myself, not because I expect someone else to do my job for me. For the record, I wasn't considering buying a machine from ebay at all, I saw it as an educating experience for me and I went for it.

Until something better comes along as an alternative Omio will be my choice of machine.
I have been looking at both the X6 and X8 and I lean more towards the X6. The X8 is bigger and that's nice but if I ever upgrade to larger work area I'd like to have a taller machine too.

The other thing I'd like to ask for advice on is which flavour of X6 to choose? There's the X6 USB and the X6 EPL. In the USB version a computer links to the router and feeds it gcode and the EPL version reads a storage device with gcode on it, if I understand correctly. I don't use computer for my 3D printers and I like it that way but I'm worried that the EPL version allows for less versatility in terms of the program that spits the gcode. Is my thinking even right? I'd like to get a second opinion on that.

Edit: Links to X6 USB (https://www.omiocnc.com/products/x6-2200l-usb.html) and X6 EPL (https://www.omiocnc.com/products/x6-2200epl.html)

Of the two I'd definitely buy the USB version. I don't like the separate controller. I think the USB version is cheaper, but what you have to decide is how you prefer to use it and what changes are you ready to make. USB means it needs a driver. Do they deliver with a driver for Mach3? Will you be buying Mach3? If not, which controller software did you had in mind? UCCNC can't be used unless you remove the built in USB controller and install one of the UCCNC controllers. Unfortunately Omio is no longer making machines with parallel port, so you have to consider a lot of things before you spend 2.5k$ on something like this.

**handlewanker** · 05-17-2017, 11:56 PM

Well, it all comes down to money in the end......talking of which.....how much does the X6 go for?

Looking at the design of the X6 on the link page and I have to say......apart from the difference with the profiled linear rails as opposed to the round SBR type rail.....the design is almost identical to the 6040......maybe it has different aluminium extruded sections, but that is what you have to do to make a design that follows the 6040 type.

That design type format is now established as the "typical" type when you say CNC gantry router made from aluminium extrusions.

Where it will differ in a comparison to the Chinese made 6040 is totally in the controller, which in the Chinese type is totally crap, so immediately in that case you would have to spend out another $500 or so to change to a more reliable Gecko controller.

After that point I'd say you were running on equal terms......the profile linear rails compared to the round SBR type won't make the machine a far better machine as a moving gantry is flimsy at the best of time.

I could see a price range for this model as almost double that of the Chinese 6040.....but it starts to level out by having more reliable electronics and backup..... the end result would be a more reliable machine out of the box at switch on day and thereafter......wake up China the West is fighting back.

If the Chinese sellers offered the 6040 bare bones, sans electronic box etc, and a significant price reduction, that would put the cat amongst the pigeons big time.
Ian.

**A_Camera** · 05-18-2017, 02:54 AM