To Chinese or not to Chinese, that is the question

[Rainguy]

Hi Guys,

I'm new here but I've been lurking for a while. I'm in the market for "hobbyist" laser engraver/cutter for my "maker space" but unlike a lot of folk who might be just looking at one to tinker with, I do actually have some applications in mind. For that reason I think I'm going to pump some extra cash into my chosen solution to ensure I can get a UK sourced and supported product. I've got a few 3D printers which I've been operating for a few years and so I'm well used to tinkering and upgrading Chinese supplied solutions but on this occasion I would really like to just be able to plug it in and use it, rather than working through a tonne of issues and trial and error to eventually get it performing how I need it, and then maybe realising I've wasted my money because I should have bought something else.

Specifically I'm looking to cut a range of materials but I'm guessing that my lowest common denominator is going to be 3mm to 5mm ply and acrylic, cleanly in a single pass. No messing around with multiple passes and without excessive burning. Ideally A3 size but A4 would likely suffice, Z axis adjustment would also be nice. Oh, and the moon on a stick too please.

I'd been looking at some of the red and black Chinese 60w lasers, on the basis that I'd get a true 40w continuous cutting performance for a useful amount of time without compromising tube life too much, but I understand that even that might be a tall order.

So, given everything I've said can anyone make any suggestions? I've seen the 60w Chinese solutions for around the £1500 mark but I'm guessing that I'm going to need to spend double that for everything I've mentioned. The budget is relatively flexible but at the same time I don't want to loose sight on the fact that this is a hobby for me and I just can't justify several thousand pounds. I could also adjust my requirements to come in at sensible price - ie only 3mm ply, and do 5mm in 2 passes.

Thanks,
Phil

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[CNCMAN172]

Rainguy,
If you read all the posts on Chinese lasers you really might want to think of getting a machine with better support and warranty. Rabbit and a few others have good reputations, the problem with many of the Chinese units ends up being the power supply, the quality of the tubes, the software and instructions. Some people get the machines they work for about a month and then start having issues. Others get the machine and they have issues day one. Remember the saying you get what you pay for that really is true for lasers.

[Storen]

For a hobby definitely go for Chinese. All non-Chinese machines will be priced for professional use. And yes, best buy it local. Avoid the eBay options - Most eBay sellers who import Chinese equipment are morons or crooks.

[Rainguy]

Yes, I realise that you get what you pay for, which is why I said that my budget is flexible and I wouldn't disregard a UK supplier if the budget was within reason. I had been considering a Lasercript device from HPC Laser in the UK which looks like it could be reasonable. Unfortunately I couldn't justify the cost of products like the Epilog Zing.

I didn't know if the higher value 100w Chinese lasers offered better value or reliability?

[wmgeorge]

You don't need a 100 Watt hobby laser spend your money on quality, 60-80 watts and good supplier, not eBay. In the UK unless your imported Chinese laser meets certain standards for safety your not allowed to import it will be held at the port. Do your research before buying.

[Rainguy]

I think I'm coming to the Laserscript LS3040 as being in the sweet spot for features and price, being sold here in the UK by HPC Laser. It looks like it will meet my requirements quite nicely. Anyone here use one of these devices here in the UK and has experience of dealing with HPC?

[mark747]

I found HPC to be expensive, and to be honest they just seem to be Chinese lasers with uk back up. I also had a few words with the supplier of the red and black 80w on ebay, supposedly from Portsmouth. But beware if its faulty and has to go back you don't send it back to Portsmouth, but you send it back to China. A few people on here myself included have used Dropswell, they are also Chinese lasers but they are based in the uk like HPC, but a bit cheaper and the aftersales is very good. My laser had to be tipped up onto its front to get it through the doorway, and still worked perfectly when it was plugged in. Worth a look to see if there is something within your budget and size.

[handlewanker]

Hi, wouldn't it make sense to build the CNC mechanical part and buy in a 3rd party laser tube and power supply unit?

That way if the burning part gives trouble it's a minimal trouble shoot to replace parts on.

As a matter of interest, what would the bare 60-80Watt laser tube cost.....US$, A$ Euros or pounds etc..... ....power supplies could be locally sourced.

If you have a fairly decent CNC router, could you convert it to Laser without a problem?

I'm just curious as I might one day give it a go.
Ian.

[cinematic2]

I wouldn`t sent a penny for chinese "technology".
It is much better to look for used Epilog, Trotec or GCC.
Like that:
epilog laser zing laser engraver used | eBay

[wmgeorge]

I wouldn`t sent a penny for chinese "technology".
It is much better to look for used Epilog, Trotec or GCC.
Like that:
epilog laser zing laser engraver used | eBay

Listing on US eBay won't help much since if you had noticed he is in the UK.

[cinematic2]

Listing on US eBay won't help much since if you had noticed he is in the UK.

Mayby for you that`s a problem. Not for me. We, Poles are a bit smarter.
My first 120W Synrad came long ago from Austin, Tx.

[GeneMpls]

ThinkLaser is good- they have videos on Youtube

[Rainguy]

I found HPC to be expensive, and to be honest they just seem to be Chinese lasers with uk back up. I also had a few words with the supplier of the red and black 80w on ebay, supposedly from Portsmouth. But beware if its faulty and has to go back you don't send it back to Portsmouth, but you send it back to China. A few people on here myself included have used Dropswell, they are also Chinese lasers but they are based in the uk like HPC, but a bit cheaper and the aftersales is very good. My laser had to be tipped up onto its front to get it through the doorway, and still worked perfectly when it was plugged in. Worth a look to see if there is something within your budget and size.

Thanks for the Dropswell tip. Been looking at the 100w 6040. I might give them a call shortly.

[mark747]

I have the 100w 6040, but its the older model to what they now advertise. It hasn't got all the bells and whistles that some of the more expensive ones have, but all I wanted is for it to cut and engrave what I put on the laptop screen. It does this extremely well, and I also had the rotary attachment with it and that runs perfectly (although it took a little getting used to). Good luck with your searching.

[Rainguy]

I have the 100w 6040, but its the older model to what they now advertise. It hasn't got all the bells and whistles that some of the more expensive ones have, but all I wanted is for it to cut and engrave what I put on the laptop screen. It does this extremely well, and I also had the rotary attachment with it and that runs perfectly (although it took a little getting used to). Good luck with your searching.

I gave them a call but all I got was an answering machine with a message in Chinese on it.

Did you just order it off their website and waited for it to turn up?

[mark747]

Hi
I emailed to start with, as I live just outside of Birmingham (they are about 20 miles from me), I asked if it would be possible to see one working. They said it was ok to visit, so I took some of my samples with me for them to try the machine on. It worked so as I was there with cash, and a large car (a discovery) I got a couple of hundred knocked off. They helped load it into my car and it came home with me. I have called them over a couple of minor issues, but have always got through. I must say one problem was my own doing, and the other was the red dot failed. I phoned and a new one turned up next morning.
I would try them again, maybe a different time of day in case they were on break.

[Rainguy]

Hi All,

Thanks for all the advise. Inspite of that I have ended up going with an item from eBay. I did consider using the UK based suppliers but the other than HCL the other suppliers I contacted just didn't get back to me and so I just figured that it was no different than buying straight from eBay in any case. I opted for what appears to be an upgraded/updated RedSail 60W derivative based around a 1100mm 60W CO2 tube for about £1400 and I've found quite a lot of info and details of possible upgrades and have forewarning of some of the pitfalls. I figured that I should actually save myself some money and leverage the knowledge I already have on these types of control systems, learn more about CO2 lasers as I go, and build on something which looks like it might make a "good enough" start. First upgrades will be a decent watt meter and a better chiller and then I'll look at alternative tubes and power supplies soon enough.

I hope to contribute more in the future with my experiences and I'm glad I've found this forum as there is a wealth of info here.

[wmgeorge]

Good luck getting past UK customs and unless its approved by your equivalent of our FDA and OSHA it will not be allowed. This is from a source who is in the UK and deals with lasers everyday... not me.
Unless of course its already in your country.... in any event good luck.

[Rainguy]

Good luck getting past UK customs and unless its approved by your equivalent of our FDA and OSHA it will not be allowed. This is from a source who is in the UK and deals with lasers everyday... not me.
Unless of course its already in your country.... in any event good luck.

It's actually shipping from Germany, not China, so already in the EU zone although it could be in a bonded warehouse. None the less, the seller claims that it has all the required approvals as well as themselves having an acceptable feedback level against more than 20,000 eBay transactions. I did consider this having read other comments on here and whilst I must confess to never having acquired laser equipment previously, I used to have a business where I imported containers of motherboards, graphics cards, etc, from China into the UK for distribution - I know a bit about import. I also elected to make the purchase via PayPal using their credit facility, as I'd have extra protection under the finance laws in the UK vs a transaction funded by my bank account. I'm not going to claim that I thought of everything, but I've been registered on here since February 2017 and only just decided to take the plunge this week following much research. I could have spent much less on this item on eBay but the info available was pretty compelling, should it stack up to actually being correct. That said, I'm prepared for the worst.

[handlewanker]

Hi....don't run away with the idea that Paypal is the be all and end all of money back guarantees........once you pay you have to open a dispute if the deal goes bad, but if you've stuffed up with the import requirements and it's sitting at customs and won't come into the country.....ever......Paypal has no further interest in the matter and won't act.

If the seller hangs onto the loot or not as described, won't deliver etc, that's a different matter.

I generally have good results by browsing the sellers feedback rating.......I don't give feedback until I get the goods and make sure it works.

BTW.....many items are shipped from China even though the seller is in your country....that is how dropshipping works.....the actual seller is just an agent and probably doesn't even see the goods......one of the reasons why you get strange replies to emails or no emails when parts are damaged or missing.

If a part is damaged or not as described you get a request for a photo of the item......sometimes you get a replacement without the seller wanting the dud item back.

I've had to wait for 3 weeks for many items that show the Ebay seller as being in OZ......most of the time the OZ listed items only take 2 days to get to me.
Ian.