Quality benchtop lasers?


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    Gold Member MichaelHenry's Avatar
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    Default Quality benchtop lasers?

    I'm researching lasers for hobby use in a desktop format with a machine footprint of roughly 36x30" or a little more and a weight of preferably 100 lbs or less.

    The specs for the Epilog Mini 18 are attractive but the price is a little too much for my hobby budget. What brands and models would the members here recommend for a reasonably good quality laser in my preferred format? Someone recommended the Voccell DLS but there don't seem to be too many of them reviewed or demoed on YouTube.

    I do have a Glowforge Pro on pre-order but am starting to think a good Plan B may be in order.

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    Default Re: Quality benchtop lasers?

    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelHenry View Post
    I'm researching lasers for hobby use in a desktop format with a machine footprint of roughly 36x30" or a little more and a weight of preferably 100 lbs or less.

    The specs for the Epilog Mini 18 are attractive but the price is a little too much for my hobby budget. What brands and models would the members here recommend for a reasonably good quality laser in my preferred format? Someone recommended the Voccell DLS but there don't seem to be too many of them reviewed or demoed on YouTube.

    I do have a Glowforge Pro on pre-order but am starting to think a good Plan B may be in order.
    I guess you will have to define for yourself what a reasonably good quality laser is, what are your technical requirements and what you need it for. Epilog Mini18 is not a hobby machine. Glowforge, Full Specrum Muse and K40 are the only enthusiast class machines I know of. Of course you can get a cheap Chinese production machine but you should manage your expectations in terms of quality and support.
    I would suggest to buy one of the blue-white eBay machines for about 1.5K to learn about the technology and upgrade later when you feel more confident. If you don't mind importing from China see this: www.hsglaser.com/engarving/1073.html
    It should be less than 3K shipped.




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    Default Re: Quality benchtop lasers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Storen View Post
    I guess you will have to define for yourself what a reasonably good quality laser is, what are your technical requirements and what you need it for. Epilog Mini18 is not a hobby machine. Glowforge, Full Specrum Muse and K40 are the only enthusiast class machines I know of. Of course you can get a cheap Chinese production machine but you should manage your expectations in terms of quality and support.
    I would suggest to buy one of the blue-white eBay machines for about 1.5K to learn about the technology and upgrade later when you feel more confident. If you don't mind importing from China see this: www.hsglaser.com/engarving/1073.html
    It should be less than 3K shipped.
    Thanks for the input. I realize that the Epilog is not exactly a hobby laser, but it has most of the features I'd like so seems like a good baseline to start from. I've started assembling a list of possibilities with features and such, so let me ask this question - are there any brands that one should stay away from.

    I'll check out that GHS laser, but would really prefer to buy from a distributor that is US-based. I've had a few problems with language barriers with foreign (to the US) suppliers in the past.



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    Default Re: Quality benchtop lasers?

    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelHenry View Post
    let me ask this question - are there any brands that one should stay away from.
    There would be very few options in the low-price range (hobby machine) available in the US so I think yo should consider all of them. I don't know how much you know about this technology and how are you going to evaluate them. Here are few general advices:

    - Learn about the difference between Radio Frequency (RF) and Glass (Direct Current) lasers. There are tons of information on the subject online.
    - Learn about which materials are safe to process with a laser. The list is short.
    - Learn about how to properly ventilate/filter a laser machine
    - Consider the footprint and dimensions. Most production machines (even the cheap ones) can't pass trough a normal residential door.
    - Maybe also learn about the disadvantages of laser cutting vs rotary CNC. Often rotary CNC would provide better results for sheet cutting.

    Do you have any specific projects in mind or you are buying the machine mostly to experiment and learn?

    Last edited by Storen; 03-25-2017 at 09:40 AM.


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    Default Re: Quality benchtop lasers?

    Your size to weight specs are not reasonable either. I had an 18x24 Bodor desktop [100w] and I would guess it weighed closer to 250 pounds. It would be a good machine with a 60w tube. Gene

    4x4 shopbot with chicom water cooled spindle
    3x4 130watt chinese laser


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    Default Re: Quality benchtop lasers?

    My intent is to use the laser to make some tool storage racks, various storage boxes, a few edge-lit signs, and perhaps some mechanical gadgets, like the Kickstarter Codex Silenda puzzle book. I have a CNC mill and lathe so no need to duplicate that capability. Much of what I might make could be as easily or better done with woodworking tools or a CNC router but I'm out of space for something like that. I would enjoy doing some real 3D engraving with variable depths as demonstrated in a Trotec video of a Canadian Coat of Arms, but that's just something that would be fun to do and not a requirement. From what I've read, that sort of 3D engraving takes a certain amount of file preparation and trial and error and may be difficult to do with a glass tube. My experience is mostly with metalworking tools, like lathes and mills and some basic woodworking tools, like miter and circylar saws. I'm 80 % retired so I have time to play and learn.

    From what I've learned so far, RF tubes are a lot more capable with a much longer lifetime but at the expense of a higher upfront and regeration cost. It seems like the cheapest RF-based systems start at $8k or more which is a bit over my available budget.

    I've a pretty good idea of what materials a laser is capable of safely cutting (halogenated compounds are a big no-no) and have bookmarked several safe-to-cut lists. I expect that my typical materials would br quality Baltic Birch plywood, acrylic, Delrin, veg-tanned leather, a few common hardwoods or verneers, paper, cardboard, and possibly the odd stone.

    I hope I also have a pretty good idea of the ventilation needs - something like 250-400 cfm depending on laser size through 8-ft or less of 4-in dryer ducting. My preferred location is in a basement office directly below a window well and it should be pretty easy to put a feedthrough flange in an acrylic replacement window for ventilation outside. There is also a 3-in radon abatement duct a few feet away through a wall in the office. That leads to the roof outlet so would be better but I'm guessing it's best to keep laser ventilation and radon abatement lines separate.

    I've been accumulating footprint and weight in my spreadsheet of laser specs and those parameters will certainly be eliminating some candidates. The Voccell DLS (a just failed Kickstarter) would be doable from a weight & footprint standpoint and it looks like buyers from last December are due to receive their orders in the next week or two so it will be interesting to see what they have say as they start using their lasers.

    Aside from all those good suggestions from your list I am also looking at laser power (60 watts or less), included software, warranty, US spares support, available options. For import systems it seems like it would be good to know who makes the laser tube and laser controller, and what sort of hardware is used for the motion control. I'm not really up on what is good and what is not, but it seems like web searches might be instructive once I get a few names from vendors.

    GeneMPLS - I agree that most of the 18x24 lasers seem to be too large and heavy for my situation. Voccell DLS seems to be the only one on my list so far that might fit.



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    Default Re: Quality benchtop lasers?

    RF - Yes, they start from about 8K and I would not recommend this technology for slow-speed cutting of wood and acrylic. Glass tube will make more sense for that.

    Materials - Your list looks good except for the paper and cardboard. You would be able to cut these materials but with poor quality results. In normal use the lasers would burn the edges of the organic materials. This may look natural and acceptable on wood (which could also be painted) but it would look super ugly on paper especially if it is white. And when the edges are touched with fingers, the charcoal dust would spread over the surface of the paper making it look even messier. Keeping the edges clean when cutting with laser is not impossible, but for that you will need an expensive specialized machine.

    Options - You can’t get a quality benchtop laser for under 8K in the US so your only option would be to buy a cheep Chinese configuration either directly from China, eBay or insanely overpriced from a local re-seller. Neither of these options is good. Unfortunately this is the situation at the moment. In any case before you start contacting the re-sellers I would suggest to contact a couple of Chinese factories over alibaba.com to get a realistic idea of the prices of different configurations and components. This will help you decide if the re-seller markups are justified for what they offer.

    Software - It always comes free with the motion controller. No need to worry about that. The Chinese software typically has a very primitive interface but it works. It is Windows only.

    //I’m not really up on what is good and what is not

    It is hard to say what is good and what is not at the low-cost end. Here is a list of popular choices for Chinese configurations:

    Tube - RECI for high-wattage applications (90W and above). EFR and Yongli for mid-wattage (30W-80W). Tongli for low-wattage (below 30W)
    Motors/Drivers - Nema steppers are popular. Leadshine are better. If you don't mind spending a little more you can get closed-loop (CL) steppers from Leadshine or Panasonic.
    Actuators - Hiwin, TBI or Leadshine
    Motion Controller - Ruida, Leetro, Pu Han, Topwisdom. Ruida is the most popular of all.

    Few other things - Ask for honey-comb work bed. It is important for cutting. And maybe look for enclosure that allows pass-trough for longer pieces. Motorized bed and autofocus are convenient but not essential.

    BTW in which state do you live in? A preowned machine could be a less risky option.



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    Default Re: Quality benchtop lasers?

    Hi Storen,

    I live in Illinois, not too far from Chicago. A used machine is an option, if I can be confident that it works properly.

    Paper and cardboard are not high on my list of materials to be cut. They would just be a cheap way to play around a bit. Baltic birch, ply acrylic, and Delrin would be the materials I'd use most often.

    The K40 software seems to have a pretty bad rep but I don't even know what name that goes by. The capability to read DXF files would be important to me, but it looks like most laser software reads that (except for Glowforge, go figure).

    Thanks for the recommendations on hardware - that should come in handy. Pass-through would be very nice, though I probably wouldn't use it that often. Ditto on a rotary attachment, so those are both in the nice to have but not essential category..



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    Default Re: Quality benchtop lasers?

    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelHenry View Post
    Hi Storen,

    I live in Illinois, not too far from Chicago. A used machine is an option, if I can be confident that it works properly.

    Paper and cardboard are not high on my list of materials to be cut. They would just be a cheap way to play around a bit. Baltic birch, ply acrylic, and Delrin would be the materials I'd use most often.

    The K40 software seems to have a pretty bad rep but I don't even know what name that goes by. The capability to read DXF files would be important to me, but it looks like most laser software reads that (except for Glowforge, go figure).

    Thanks for the recommendations on hardware - that should come in handy. Pass-through would be very nice, though I probably wouldn't use it that often. Ditto on a rotary attachment, so those are both in the nice to have but not essential category..
    Try Automation Technologies they have some and not to far from you. You can see them in action and pick it up



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    Default Re: Quality benchtop lasers?

    Quote Originally Posted by fixtureman1 View Post
    Try Automation Technologies they have some and not to far from you. You can see them in action and pick it up
    The laser machines sold by Automation Technologies are exactly the same as the ones sold on eBay. I agree with Fixtureman - If they allow you to inspect the machine before buying it this could be your best option. Their prices are very reasonable.



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    Default Re: Quality benchtop lasers?

    Thanks fixtureman1 and Storen. I'm looking at their web page now and it looks like they do have a local showroom and the prices are quite reasonable for a local sale, aside from the 10% state sales tax (!!).



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