Re: Glowforge, Too good to be true?
That's pretty much true of any product that is not available retail. I'm confident that the specs won't change too drastically and would expect (and demand) a refund if they do.Originally Posted by fixtureman1
Re: Glowforge, Too good to be true?
Well Michael I sincerely hope you get a machine. It won't burn your house down if you watch it. Especially if your cutting with , do not walk away from it watch till its done cutting.I can tell you that if you had this machine that I have you'd be working it no problem with in an hour out of the box. Yes you need that initial hour of help but after that your engraving and cutting. It will fit on your desktop too ( if you have a really big desk LOL )
Last edited by Bigbird48; 01-21-2017 at 10:09 AM.
Re: Glowforge, Too good to be true?
You can get a laser controller that is free, that does more than what that laser may be able to do now.
<img src="https://ivxo1q-dm2305.files.1drv.com/y4mENMmTr_Cabc7pR0FUdB6gtbADq2JbuG4_rGy0eBQvLJx19pTi6TqMUIJN0xgOyDIc0gWoxYhS38HpbSTFGdfaK-o42IOU6jczrhDpfpCOTNGL1X6hvZCbgj0y35gqmq1YGTrWwShYGV-C7lXA2esy0Pi_WfnBSyroDLSGXwce4uSr1U7op7srdi78rispHCa_K4aFlTlJPVkkNWMfgh_Tg?width=60&height=60&cropmode=none" width="60" height="60" />
Being Disabled is OK CNC is For fuN
Re: Glowforge, Too good to be true?
Really Oh Please enlighten us oh most powerful one
Re: Glowforge, Too good to be true?
I don't think many of us have issues with the GlowForge machine itself. The prototypes are neat and clean looking. I really do hope that the product continues to be successful. But...I have issue with their two year delay.
The machine offers many of the same features that are found in competing units on the market. My biggest concern, beyond the delays, is the necessity of having the machine connected to the internet. It is dependant on their service to be active in order to function. Any interruption in their service (or an interruption from your ISP) will prevent you from using your machine. Would you buy a CNC lathe or milling machine that required a software subscription or on-line service in order to work?
If you choose to wait, that's fine. I hope you enjoy your machine and look forward to hearing about your experiences with it.
Re: Glowforge, Too good to be true?
Thanks - I'll report back here if I ever get it or if I get something else. I've already resigned myself to only cutting when I am nearby, but frankly that seems like a good idea for most hobby grade or light industrial systems. I've got a custom L-shaped Formica-topped desk that is 30" deep x 6' long on side and 7-1/2' long on the other so there should be enough room.
Re: Glowforge, Too good to be true?
To be fair the delay will probably be 1-3/4 years, not 2 years depending on how you count and assuming of course that they actually do ship all pre-ordered units by July 31, which their latest schedule. Current orders will ship 2 years after shipping was supposed to start, but then they will only have waited since the time their orders were placed. However that's really nit-picking in the grand scheme of things and 2 years is pretty close.
To be honest, I'm pretty concerned about the Cloud-only software and I questioned the need for that early and advocated for a local host option to no avail. I think that it is pretty handy for upgrades (and it sounds like there will be lots of them over the 1st few months or year after release) but owners are going to be screwed if the company goes belly up or decides to start charging annual maintenance or something. I've been using Onshape, which is Cloud-only 3D parametric CAD, and the instant updates are nice, especially since they happen every 3-4 weeks right now. On the down side, you lose edit access to your CAD files if you stop paying the monthly or annual subscription fee or if they go belly up.
I do like the in system cooling that (reportedly) does away with the need for an external chiller and the software is supposed to be a lot easier to use than the usual K40 stuff. 3D engraving looks really cool and I'm not sure how many other lasers do that. The passthrough on the Pro model could be handy assuming they get that software to work properly. Autofocus might be nice for some materials. I don't see me needing the scanning function that they like to promote but parents with kids would probably like it. Mostly though, I'm looking for something that works out of the box, has US support with spare parts inventory and fits on my home work desk. I have other CNC tools and projects to keep me busy if I want to tinker or do some hands-on work.
I will definitely report back here when (if) I get and describe my experiences. As I mentioned to BigBird, I'd be very interested in trading engravings, either actual samples or photos, just to see various units do. I got the Aztec calendar sample from Full Spectrum and looks pretty good so I'm interested to see how the GF does.
Re: Glowforge, Too good to be true?
The people that have them seem to be happy and more are on the way looks like. Soon there will be thousands and will see more people using them. People said it wouldn't happen but it did.
Re: Glowforge, Too good to be true?
How many people have them. The ones I saw don't have many features that Glowforge touts. Just waiting for a new update From Dan. No pics of all these units. How are they cooling the tube.
Re: Glowforge, Too good to be true?
They are probably cooling the tube by circulating water through a very small radiator and using a fan to cool it. I don't anticipate a lot of tubes lasting very long. Given the approximate size of the unit, I don't see where they could put a large enough radiator in to provide enough heat dissipation and there can't be much water either if the entire unit is enclosed without an external tank. That was never shown.
It has been nearly 78 weeks (1y5m) since their funding was completed. They've had more than enough time to bring the product to market.
Re: Glowforge, Too good to be true?
They are shipping.
Re: Glowforge, Too good to be true?
According to them, those are only the prereleases. Most people won't see their orders until the end of summer...if ever.
Re: Glowforge, Too good to be true?
Yea the cooling problempeople will be happy for a month or so till their tube doesn't work anymore.
Re: Glowforge, Too good to be true?
Genuinely interested, but what is the big difficulty about cooling the laser?
My understanding is that CO2 lasers are around 10-20% efficient. The Glowforge pro is I believe 45w, so let's assume they are at the lower end of the efficiency scale at 10%... that would mean that worst case the laser is consuming 450w to produce that 45w beam, again taking the worst case assumption that all of it is then given off as heat in the tube (which is unlikely, I'm guessing) then you have roughly 300w of heat to dispense.
That's a little bit more than a full blooded discrete computer GPU produces, for which one would normally need a 120x120mm radiator (or 120x240mm if you want to keep the delta from room temp as low as possible).
Anyway, my point is that worst case 300ish watts isn't a great deal of heat energy to deal with if they've been clever or sensible with the design, so why is it seen as a big hurdle?
edit - just out of interest after some googling I see they refer to a closed loop water cooling solution for the normal model and a higher end "solid state thermoelectric cooling" system for the pro (peltier I assume? effectively a solid state refrigerator....), not too difficult to dispose of 300w using that sort of system imo.
Re: Glowforge, Too good to be true?
It's not just about removing heat from the tube, it's about keeping the tube at a stable temperature. More than likely, it's only a 30 Watt tube as seen in the K40 type machines. Yes, it can output above that, but it's life is shortened.
If you care about your tube and expect it to live more than ten minutes, you'll use a refrigerated cooling system.
Re: Glowforge, Too good to be true?
co2 tube run best and last longest when run around 60For lower say 55. Radiators can only cool to ambient temp.The warmer the air the shorter life span of the tube. From what I've read and I haven't read everything the GF's are a closed circuit cooling system and a radiator with a fan blowing is no where near enough cooling for the laser. It only takes a few mins of cutting at 70% power for the water temp to start rising. I have a 5 gallon bucket of water circulating water thru the tube and if I don't have ice in the water the temp starts to go up pretty fast. It will go from 60f to 70 f in 30 mins with no ice.
Re: Glowforge, Too good to be true?
I would assume that is why they are using the thermoelectric kit for the pro - it would allow a much higher delta between radiator and room temp while keeping the actual loop that flows through the tube jacket below said room temp.
Godfrey - Assuming sufficient flow rate, the stability of the tube temp is ultimately just a question of being able to dispense the heat it's producing...
I'm just surprised that of all the things that could be a big issue, assuming they have some half decent engineers dumping 300w of heat energy shouldn't be massively challenging. It strikes me as a bit unnecessarily negative to infer that they couldn't possibly have a sufficient cooling system in place before knowing the actual details of said setup. I do get that there is a general dislike of anything too "consumery" on more dedicated and hardcore forums such as this, but personally I'm going to wait and see the full details what is actually in there (if they ever actually get made!) before getting too excited either way.
Re: Glowforge, Too good to be true?
Agreed, it should be relatively easy to manage that load, but above certain temps, laser output diminishes and life of the tube is shortened. It only takes a moment for the glass to crack and it's lights out for the tube. Granted, these are consumables and have an average life expectancy.
The only thing I have against GlowForge at the moment is their "must be on-line" for it to function. It really doesn't take that much to drive an XY stage. An Apple IIe could handle the task. I've seen many "this is totally the future" promises that required on-line services to function go into obsolescence.
Re: Glowforge, Too good to be true?
Agreed I view that somewhat suspiciously as well... I believe it's been said that were glowforge to go belly up, the cloud side of things would be released as open source - saying and doing is another matter entirely of course.
I don't really get the need, I don't think anyone is suggesting you need cloud processing power to drive the axis (and what a mess that would be!)... what they appear to claim is that their processing software and user interface functions are what they needed to leverage the cloud for.
I guess it makes sense that you can't run that stuff on a small embedded system like you can with the actual motion control, but who (who is also in the market for a several thousand dollar laser that is) doesn't have access to a semi decent computer these days? I see no reason why that stuff needs to be tied to the cloud.
I would much, much prefer local user interface/creative software.
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Re: Glowforge, Too good to be true?
They say they'll ship when hardware complete even if some of the software features are not implemented yet. Software and firmware updates apparently happen automatically through the cloud so there shouldn't be much hassle with software/firmware upgrades.
It looks like the Muse is having a lot of early owner problems - that's lucky for Glowforge. GF is due for another monthly update to buyers and it will be interesting to see if there are any gotchas like there were in the last one.
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