Reply with QuoteThanks for posting that. I have been looking at their stages for a few weeks now. Didn't realize they had a new one coming.
What software is that you are using in the video?
Review - Lightobject XY Stages
Hey guys,
Well, I've been through a heap of revisions with my laser cutter, and not really been impressed with the operation of them.
I started eyeing off the XY stages on Lightobject.com Sacramento (Elk Grove) DSP CO2 laser machine & Parts. Solar panel & Electronics Supplier all of Northern California, and after a few emails back and forth (Marco is VERY helpful and responsive!), I went ahead.
However, Marco informed me that he was heading off to China (Lightobject is based in the US) to check out a new set of XY stages, ones that were apparently much better.
This was fine with me, as I had to save up some money to make the purchase anyway.
The whole time, and this is a HUGE plus for Marco/Lightobject, is his responsiveness. Provided you email within his timezone, you'll usually have a reply within a matter of hours, or even minutes at times.
We exchanged over 110 emails during the process, most of which were me asking questions about it.
I settled on the 1200x900 stages, as that was around the size of the machine I was aiming for the entire time. He also has them in 400x600 and (I believe) 1200x1800 if you're getting serious.
I'm going to break this up into sections for easier reading below.
Lightobject
From my understanding, Lightobject is run by Marco only. I believe he also has a demo shop set up in the US.
Being in Australia, I've had to deal with him entirely online. And, well, you have nothing to fear. As I said previously, Marco is VERY responsive to emails. If he doesn't reply in a timely manner, you can just assume he doesn't have access to internet or a computer. His English is slightly broken, however completely understandable as long as you already have a basic idea of what you're doing, don't expect him to spoonfeed you.
Lightobject also has their own dedicated support forum, which is fairly active, especially with topics about their DSP. Marco has direct ties with the programmer responsible for the DSP and it's software, so if you have any bug reports or feature requests, you can post about them on the forum, and they are dealt with fairly quickly.
New vs Old models
As mentioned previously, the stages I will be talking about in this review are a fairly new model, and are not listed on the website yet.
The main differences between the new model and the previous "Pro" models listed on their site are:
- 1:2 belt reduction on both X and Y axes. Combined with 1/16 microstepping, I have so far come up with a value of 9.8um/step, which is insanely accurate. Infact, the precision of these stages is smaller than the wavelength of a CO2 laser, how cool is that!
- Better stepper motors. Some testing and modification was done to the motor portion of the stages. The motors on the new stages do not have any label, so I can not give a specific model, however I am told that they are very nice quality motors (used by Leetro). They are 2 phase, 4A rated. Marco had informed me that during his testing, he was able to reach a staggering 1100mm/s!
As my drivers are only capable of up to 2.5A, I have not been able to test this claim, however I have run at 500mm/s easily, so double the speed for double the power is not unreasonable at all.
- Different linear bearings. The older style stages used the well known "THK" style linear rails, which have been swapped out with custom aluminium extrusion. These extrusions contain chrome plated steel rods on each side, and 4 U bearings per "plate". These bearings are _extremely_ smooth.
2 bearings on each side also have a non-concentric adjustment ring, with a small locking grub screw. This allows you to easily adjust the force the bearings clamp to the rails.
They have also done a great job integrating the optical assemblies with the frame. The X axis bounce mirror is actually integrated with a thick aluminium plate, which screws directly down to the carriage.
What's included?
This is about as close to a complete laser cutter kit you can get! On that same note, I believe Marco is working on a _complete_ laser cutter kit, so keep an eye out of that if you're looking to DIY, but don't have the skills or tools to do so
Included is:
2x CO2 laser tube mounts. These are quite ingenious and have a thumbscrew for height adjustment. To mount the tube, lay a strip of rubber over the metal parts of the mount that will contact the tube (Foam will work too, but tends to shift over time), and using rubber bands/straps, string them over the tube and down to the 2 screws on the sides of the mounts. This is far superior to other tube mounts that actually mechanically clamp the tube, as you have very minimal risk of breaking the tube.
1x Single mirror mount on stand. This is the mirror that goes right infront of your CO2 laser. They have decided to mount it on a pole, and use a small base with 2 screws to clamp it in position once you have the correct height.
1x Adjustable lens mount with air assist. This is a nice, single integrated unit which contains the 3rd bounce mirror and also the focusing lens. They also include a compression fitting for the air assist port. The lens barrel is adjustable, so that you can set the focal length manually. However, travel is only around 4cm, so I would recommend using an adjustable Z axis bed instead of adjusting this, as you also risk knocking it out of alignment.
Of course, you also get all the belts, bearings, motors, pulleys, bar stock, angle mounting brackets.
Please note that mirrors and lenses are NOT included. You will require 3x 25mm mirrors, and 1x 20mm focus lens! All these are also available from Lightobject
Also note that the Y axis only comes with 1 limit switch at the back. I personally felt a bit safer installing one at the front also, just in case my machine does try to crash for some reason. This is not difficult to do, and the switches are a dime a dozen.
Packaging & parts
The stages were shipped to me via DHL express, which took just over a week. It took a bit longer than usual as I live in a semi-remote area, so DHL had to hand the package over to another courier (Toll Priority in my case) to be delivered. There is a very good chance which courier he chooses will be dependent on your location, so pricing and shipping times will vary greatly.
However, if you're lucky enough to live within a reasonable distance of his demo room, I believe he will also have these in stock in the US for pickup.
For shipping, the frame is broken down into 6 main parts.
- 2x Y axis rails. These come with the belts, carriages, pulleys and bearings pre-mounted, ready to go.
- 1x Stock extrusion. This is a plain piece of extrusion used for the front of the frame, all it contains is 8 drilled & tapped holes for mounting the angle brackets.
- 1x Back Drive Assy. This is the same stock piece as above, however it contains a bearing and pulley block & 2 shaft couplers, with a belt already around the pulley. This makes up the Y axis drive system.
1x X axis carriage. This comes partly assembled. The belt is already run through 1 pulley and the extrusion, 2 limit switches already mounted, and the carriage in place.
- 1x X axis drive system. This is a single unit that contains a stepper motor and the 1:2 belt reduction system. This simply mounts onto the end of the X axis carriage mentioned above through 4 screws. The belt is then detached from the X carriage at one end, fed around the pulley, and re-attached & tensioned.
And lastly, all the other bits, separately packaged. This includes the Y axis stepper motor & bracket, the 2 mirror mounts, the lens mount, 2 drive rods and couplers and the 2 CO2 tube mounts.
All of this is wrapped generously in cling film, and placed inside a wooden crate surrounded on all sides by lots of foam. Some parts had a few small dings in them from shipping, however it was clear the shipment was handled a bit roughly, as the lid of the box had almost come off! I have recommended a few more wraps of tape around the box for future shipmentsHowever, said dings do not have any effect on the performance of my machine.
What you need to assemble them
Well, not much really. Marco and his team have gone to a lot of effort to make it as simple as possible to assemble.
You will need:
Hex/allen keys. I would also recommend a hex bit for your drill, as some screws can be time consuming to remove by hand, But be careful you don't ruin any threads if you use power tools!
A measuring tape. This is used to make sure your frame is perfectly square. Measure from corner to corner diagonally, and each side should be the same length. Of course, you have a bit of tolerance here, and the angle brackets should get it squared up pretty much right away, but always good to check!
1-2 hours. These do not take very long to set up at all, I managed to do it in about 1:15 following no instructions at all, it is very straightforward.
And, well, that's basically it!
On my machine, I found that the holes in one of the corner angle brackets didn't quite align, so I had to drill out the holes slightly larger, but this was not really a huge issue, and if you're building a laser cutter to begin with, I'd hope you'd have at least a few tools and some basic mechanical knowledge.
Assembly
How you assemble the machine isn't really critical. I did it like this:
1. Assembled the basic frame with the 2 Y rails, and X drive and stock pieces by screwing in the angle brackets. I then checked it was square.
2. Mounted the Y axis motor. This is done through 6 screws into the back of the frame. There is 1 screw sticking out the back of the motor bracket, and 4 slotted holes underneath. Loosen the 4 slotted screws, then also loosen the single screw at the back. This allows you to pull the belt over the motor. You then use the single screw at the back to tension the belt, and once tensioned, re-tighten the slotted screws underneath. I then mounted the drive shafts and couplers, however do not tighten them yet.
3. This is probably the most crucial step, and you need to do it properly or your machine will not cut square. Move the 2 Y carriages to roughly the same position, and sit the X axis rail on top. The limit switches are on top, and the front of the carriage should face away from the back motor. You will notice that one of the Y carriage plates has slotted holes, while the other doesn't. Screw the screws into the non-slotted side first, but don't tighten them. Now go over and do the same for the slotted side.
Now what you need to do, is get this rail squared with your frame. How I did it, was using a ruler, measure the distance from the X axis rail to the end of the bearing blocks. Drag each end forward or back, until the rail is the exact same distance on each side, then carefully tighten the screws underneath. This is why you have to leave the drive shafts loose, so that each side of the Y axis can move freely. Once you know your X rail is square, you can go ahead and tighten up the couplers.
4. Mount the X axis motor assembly. This simply screws onto the top of the X rail using 4 screws. Do not tighten them yet. You need to detach the belt from the X carriage, by unscrewing the 2 small screws clamping it down. Run his belt through the motor assembly around the pulley, and back to the carriage.
Since the X motor assembly is still loose, tilt it until the belt runs parallel to the rail. Keep in mind that it may stick out a bit further until you tension it. This isn't mega critical, but it reduces stresses and makes it look neater.
Now, re-tension the belt.
Having 2 people helps great here, as you need to re-tension the belt as tight as possible when you clamp it, Have a friend pull the belt through with some pliers, while you do up the screws again. You can then use the screws on each side to tension the belt even further. Use the Y axis belts as a reference for how tight they should be. They should have no sag at all, but not so tight you can't move them by hand.
And, well, that's basically it for the frame. Mount on the lens mount, the mirror mounts, build a frame around it & mount everything else and you're set
Quality
So, you may be thinking by now, "Pfft, is it really worth the money??""
Well, with hands on experience, I can say YES, definitely.
These are very nice quality, and not just overall, but down to every small detail.
Here is a list of a few things that caught my eye:
- Hollow sections have fairly thick walls, measuring around 5mm. These are very, very strong, and more than up for the task of a rigid frame.
- Chrome plated steel linear rail inserts. This is quite ingenious I thought. The bearing system can be kept to a much lighter weight by using much thinner steel rails embedded in aluminium extrusion.
- Dyed aluminium. This is a small, but rather nice detail. All the aluminium parts are dyed, not painted, so they are very durable to scratches with no risk of chipping.
- High quality motors. As mentioned previously, both the X and Y axes use 2phase 4A rated stepper motors. They just feel like quality in every way. The finish, the construction, quality of the bearings & wire is all just excellent.
- The belts are nice fine pitch, rounded tooth style with _very_ little elasticity
And I could go on and on about everything, it's just well thought out, and every part has had a bit of thought put in about how it'll fit together.
The cons
Well, everything has a few little issues, so these are the things I have noticed:
- Angle bracket holes not quite aligned. Not a major issue and easy to fix, but it was pretty scary having to drill out something you just took out of the crate. I only had this issue with 1 bracket.
- Pulleys are factory fitted. They have no grub screws or obvious ways of adjustment, and are apparently obtained from the factory like this. One small issue I had was the drive shaft protruding slightly from 1 side, which I have not been able to fix. Once again, this has no effect on the performance of the machine, just nitpicking.
- Packaging. The crate is made out of plywood, which was nailed together. When I received the box, the lid had already separated slightly, and was mostly being held on by a few wraps of DHL tape. Of course, I can't tell what abuse the box might have gone through during shipping, but a few more wraps of tape around the box could prevent any issues.
And so far that is about it. So really, the pro's far outweigh the cons considering the wall of text about quality.
Conclusion
If you've read this far, then you're probably seriously considering purchasing one of these. Well, do it, you won't regret it. Customer service from Marco is outstanding, and the product itself is a great way to learn your way into laser cutters/CNC without all the hassle of creating your own custom parts.
I started out trying to do everything from scratch and as cheap as possible, and all 4 times I tried, was never completely happy with the result. After purchasing these stages, I can finally say I'm satisfied with my lasers operation.
I can't really mention any prices in this review, as they are almost definitely going to be shuffled around before they are listed, however I can tell you that you'd be hard pressed to find a commercial machine with similar specs for under $8K.
Media
Overall view:
Closeup of X rail and drive assembly:
One of the mirror mounts:
Broken up for shipping:
Rails and parts wrapped ready for shipping:
You can mount other lasers to it also:
The crate it arrived in:
I am also actively uploading videos of these stages and my WIP laser cutter to my YouTube channel: LPFthings - YouTube
Hopefully this review will be helpful for anyone sitting on the edge about these stages, or anyone wanting to DIY a laser cutter. This is the first ever review of the new series of XY stages, and I'd be glad to answer any questions you may have!
Cheers,
Dan
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Build logs and other projects of mine: [url]http://nqlasers.com/[/url]
Thanks for posting that. I have been looking at their stages for a few weeks now. Didn't realize they had a new one coming.
What software is that you are using in the video?
In one of your video's you tell it stalls at 700mm/s.. I think you really DO need a higher voltage supply (say >48V) with a few more amps (say >12Amps). And probably a few better stepperdrivers (like leadshine or granite devices). I easily get 2000mm/sec and 5G's acceleration, even on my Y-axis but then i miss some steps sometimes so i leave that to 1500mm/s at 4G's (ie 40.000mm/s^2)
And i do use HiWin rails with a lot more friction than this "makerslide-alikes"
I like the XY frame, hope you will build a suitable casing for it..
Kees
ThanksOriginally Posted by brian257
The controller is this one here: 2012 Commercial DSP CO2 Laser Engraving/ Cutter Controller. Support CorelDraw & AutoCad
Which I also highly recommend.
Yes, my stepper drivers are just cheap TB6560 2.5A drivers, and the motors are rated at 4A. Nothing even gets warm with this setup, so there is a lot more headroom.
I do intend to upgrade them at some stage, though I only have a 40W laser for now, so the lower speed isn't really an issue at this stage.
I have designed a frame for it, and will be picking up some steel to start on it this weekend.
Annoyingly, you can't simply mount the frame from the underside, as the extra 25mm of Z obstruction wouldn't let the cutting bed get close enough to the head, so I've had to mount to it from the side.
Dan
Build logs and other projects of mine: [url]http://nqlasers.com/[/url]
You could consider a smaller bed that just slides into the frame. This gives you another ~ 25mm closer to the head's nozzel
Your laserbeam won't reach the frame by at least 30mm (i guess)
Your bed will be lighter too
Kees
What do you plan on using for the bed?
I will be using plain aluminium eggcrate
Might as well post up what I've done with the frame so far. Decided to mount to it from underneath after all, just so I didn't have to match the peices to exact lengths. Not exactly easy to do when you're primary cutting tool is an angle grinder. But turned out pretty good
Dan
Build logs and other projects of mine: [url]http://nqlasers.com/[/url]
Hi,
i want to know if you still using your Light Object stage ? have you had any failures? what did you learn from them? i'm planning to buy one and need to know more about durability of this product. thank you for your post
I would also like to know how the project turned out. Your pictures have been great!
Well before these stages were available I built a stage using ebay linear slides. I learned a couple things while trying to get the stage working.
First the Y axis driver puts tends to put a lot of stress on what ever is supporting it. As its trying to push a fairly heavy cross beam back and forth the reaction force goes into the frame. I tried using a 2:1 gear reduction with the motor hanging off the end like this and had issues with movement and vibration. I also felt the tube had to be mounted as close to the frame as possible and the motor got in the way. In the end I put a bigger motor in line (no reduction) and really built up that rear support rod. Also I didn't see a need for reduction on the X axis. The forces are very low on that slide. Additional belts and pulleys are just more stuff to fail at some point.
My belt arrangement is similar to yours but I have the ability to tension the belt with the front pulleys (you may have the same), and the ability to move the X axis stage in the Y direction to further square the X axis to the Y axis. Important or beam alignment.
Also for beam alignment you need to be able to move the mounts of the mirror holders. You can only do so much by adjusting the angle but position is sometimes needed. Keep in mind that the entire purpose of the stage is to keep the beam aligned and pointed to the center of the lense at all times.
Overall your setup looks pretty nice. Keep us posted. I'd much rather read about this then posts on which machine to buy.
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