Tips on buying a laser from China


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    Default Tips on buying a laser from China

    Tips for buying a laser from China.
    Everything in this guide is either information I have picked up on the forums, experienced myself, or my opinions. If you find any of my information wrong, please inform me. I will change or edit this as necessary. Feel free to add anything if I missed something.

    Shopping:
    1. Ask tons of questions, ask stupid questions, ask questions you know the answer to even. This is not only for information purposes, but also you are evaluating the sales staff. If they are incapable of communicating with you, the chances of their tech support people being able to communicate with you is going to be fairly slim. Also if you ask questions you already know the answer to, you can make sure the person you are talking to is actually knowledgeable.
    2. Ask to see other model sizes, Sometimes the next size up, sometimes several sizes up, are only a few hundred dollars more, and financially are a wiser decision. Unless space is the issue, ask about larger models.
    3. Shop around, but sometimes buying the least expensive laser you can find isn’t the best idea. Not all lasers are created equally. Finding a lower price competitor can be used to your advantage when dealing with a reputable company, they probably won’t price match but they may come down on their price some.
    4. ASK US ABOUT THE COMPANY!!! There are a lot of people here on the CNC forums who have already done this. Search for the company name, and if you don’t find much, ask. If nobody has ever heard of the company, check other forums. If they’re new, pass, buy from an established reseller. I know all companies have to start somewhere. Unless you plan of flying to China to make sure they aren’t a couple guys in an office reselling lasers from another company, go with an established company.
    5. Ask to see samples of the work and videos of the machine in operation. Most companies won’t send you samples, simply because they are trying to keep their overhead down. But ALL companies should be able to show you videos of their machine working. Any company that can’t do that, pass on them. If you plan on using a specific material more often than others, send them a sample of what you will be using. i.e. If you are going to be cutting thick leather, mail them a swatch of leather and ask them to cut or engrave it for you and send it back, and/or send you a video of it.
    6. Make sure the company you are dealing with is willing to send you parts via DHL in less than a week. Some companies only want to send parts via freight, or snail mail that will take you over a month to get.


    The sale:
    1. NEGOTIATE!!!! Everything is negotiable. Usually the price is fairly solid. There is so much competition the prices are pretty much rock bottom. You might be able to get the price down a little bit, but try to negotiate for spare parts instead.
    2. Buy spare parts now! As many as you can afford. As a rule of thumb, buy the items that will most likely stop your laser from producing products for an extended period of time. Here are a few things you shouldn’t buy a laser without these spares.
      1. Laser tube: these can be expensive, but they are also slow to ship due to being fragile and large. It is not financially viable to ship them any kind of express. My rule of thumb on these is keep one spare, and when you have to use it, order another one. That way you’re not in a rush to get the new one.
      2. Belts: nothing will take you out of commission faster than a broken belt. And most are odd sizes, that can’t be found in the USA. I would love to be proven wrong in this one, so if you know of a supplier PLEASE let me know.
      3. Mirrors: These are actually consumables, so treat them as such, order at minimum one extra set. They are very cheap, and you don’t have to pay any extra shipping if you buy it with your laser.
      4. Lenses: Again these are also consumable, and you can buy a variety of focal lengths to accommodate cutting and engraving. Also buy any special nozzles you may need with these lenses. Extremely short focal lengths often require a shorter nozzle.
      5. The bigger items I don’t think are a necessity, but if you can afford them, it will keep you from having down time in the future. Things like extra stepper motors, motherboard, stepper drivers, lcd panel etc. All of these can be sent via DHL for a reasonable cost, so you should be back up and running in less than a week. But if a week is the difference between losing a client and not, order them in advance.
      6. Extra keys… I have been to locksmiths here in the USA, they can sometimes make keys that fit, but they always require filing and never fit as good as the original key, negotiate to get these for free.
      7. Extra laser head assembly. This is another preventative buy, not a necessity. In case of a mistake, or limit switch failure the first piece of equipment to hit something is the laser head assembly. If it gets bent or broken it’s useless. So having a spare handy can get you back up and running quickly and they are relatively cheap.

    3. Understand what you are being sold. Some options have several models to choose from. Such as the chillers, and lenses, do research on the different options before you chose.
    4. Buying Options: Not all options should be options, while others you may not have a use for. In my opinion DSP offline control should be standard on any laser. It offers you more control over the power of the laser than a standard Pot style power control, and the cost is justified by the features it provides.
      1. Rotary devices, there are 2 types of rotary devices. Each has a different function, make sure you know which one they are offering before you buy it.
        1. 3 jaw chuck with a pointed tail stock, good for holding dowel like pieces, not so good for glassware or fragile pieces.
        2. Flat wheel rotary: good for glassware and fragile pieces. The part sits on top of the rotors and is turned.
      2. Chillers: Depending on the model, I have found, from other people’s experience that the CW-3000 is a radiator with a fan (this may vary depending on the mfg) the CW-5000 is a true chiller, and the CW-6000 is a powerful chiller. When people ask me I suggest the CW-3000 not be used on a laser larger than 60w, and even then that’s pushing the limits. 60 and 80w I suggest the CW-5000, and 100w or larger get the CW-6000. You can skimp here but you’ll notice as your coolant gets warmer your tube loses power.
      3. Motorized up down table. I consider this a must have for larger machines. The small desktop units it’s fine to have manual control, but when you have 10” of travel your arms are going to get store. Also it is a must have if you want auto focus.
      4. Autofocus: This is a tricky subject. Often this is simply a limit switch mounted on the head of the laser, once the switch is hit, it backs the table down a set distance for engraving/cutting. You can do this yourself if you find out where the limit switch is supposed to connect to, and the exact distance it needs to make contact from the lens. Some other companies provide different types of autofocus, so use your own judgment.
      5. Red dot focus, there are 2 types, the type that is off to the side of the laser head, and the type that follows the laser beam path and uses a beam combiner. Each has its own positives and negatives.
        1. Standard Red Dot: this is the kind that is off to the side and fires at an angle to the laser path. I personally like this kind because you can fire the laser, then adjust the nozzle or bed until the red dot is on the burned dot, and now you’re focused. Very easy to use. Down side is it’s easy to be knocked out of alignment if you bump it or it strikes a work piece.
        2. Red dot through lens: This utilizes a beam combiner, I have no personal experience with them but others say it will cut down on your laser’s power. Also it provides you with no focus reference, it will always point where the laser is going to fire regardless of how far away the piece is from the proper focus point. Positive points are, it will allow you to align your laser easier, adjust your mirrors until the red dot is in the center of the mirror. No more test firing and cleaning up a charred mess. Also if your red dot beam is dispersed or not striking your work piece you know there is an alignment issue. Personally if I were to buy this option I would also include the standard red dot, that way when both dots are aligned you know you’re at your focus point.
      6. Honeycomb table: these are fairly simple, and they are all pretty much the same. I think most laser sellers have reasonable prices on these, if you’re not sure you can go to mcmaster.com and see their prices. Online they say the max size is 24”x48” but they may be able to special order larger sizes. Also theirs are the core only, no aluminum trim, so keep that in mind too.
      7. Synrad tubes, and servo controls: Some manufacturers offer these, they do cost a premium, but as you know, they are generally worth it. But keep in mind Synrad tubes usually have lower power, so if you’re looking for brute force cutting power, you may have to stick with a glass tube.
      8. Glass tube vs. RECI tube. This is an easy answer, if it’s an option, go with the RECI tube. It will last longer, and from what I’ve heard they seem to test at a higher power than they are rated. I’m sure there are some people on here who can explain their differences to you, but I’m not one of them. I just know the quality is higher, and usually they come with some kind of warranty.
    5. Shipping costs: This is usually a FOB price to a city near you, what you need to understand about this, it only covers the actual shipping cost, not the import fees, paperwork fees, and warehouse fees. In the US, this can be close to $800 in additional fees. Other countries this will vary just be aware of what they are paying for and what you are paying for. Also rarely does their price include shipping to your door, only to a warehouse near you. Near you may also be a relative term if you are far away from a big city.
    6. Payment: Almost all companies require you wire transfer the money. This is not reversible once you send the money it’s gone. This is why you need to do your research, and go with a reputable company. Most companies will require 50% up front, and remainder on completion. I suggest you use this unless you have done a lot of business with the company before, then you can save yourself the wire fees and pay 100% up front.
    7. US customers, make sure the company you buy from has all their paperwork in place and are FDA compliant. If they are not FDA compliant you will have a heck of a time getting it through customs, and you may not be able to get it if they can’t/won’t provide the information needed.
      1. All other countries, learn what the requirements are for importing to your country, and make sure the company you chose has already met those requirements, you don’t want to be the first import they’ve done to your country. If you are you risk losing your machine to customs due to lack of compliance.

    The Import:
    Let’s all be honest here. This is the part that has us all scared, it’s the only part of the whole process we have absolutely NO control over. It’s the part of the process our respective governments have to look it over and give the OK stamp to our precious laser. But here’s the good news, if you followed all the previous tips, you’re golden. If the company has a history of importing lasers to your country, then their freight handler should already be familiar with the paperwork, and you know they are compliant with all the requirements.
    1. Start filing your paperwork with the freight handler as soon as possible. US customers, there is a late filing fee, if your item has been received by the shipper and has started the shipping process, it is considered shipped. Once the item is shipped, if you haven’t filed your paperwork, there is a late filing fee. Also it increases the chance of your crate getting flagged for extra inspection.
    2. Know what your fees are. The freight handler will be able to quote you exactly how much they charge for filing fees, but they usually won’t tell you how much the duties and taxes will be. This is because customs normally goes off declared value, but if they feel that the declared value is too low, they can assign a value and tax it at that value. So point here is keep your declared value near the actual cost and you’ll be alright.
    3. Hidden fees. Be prepared for a few hundred dollars of fees nobody talked about. Mine was a final destination fee. It was the fee charged by the warehouse I picked up my machine at. $218 to be exact. I was informed of this fee after my laser left NYC and was headed to ATL, and even then I wasn’t told of it, I was told there would be a fee, but I had to call the warehouse to find out the exact cost of the fee. Which the warehouse couldn’t answer until the paperwork was in their system. By in the system they meant after they received it in the warehouse. So this fee was up in the air until they had my crate. So be prepared for that fee as well, and all will be good.
    4. Lumpers… AKA Dock hands, forklift operators, whatever you want to call them. Some warehouses employ them and them loading/unloading freight is part of the services offered by the warehouse. Others use private contractors who charge for their services, this is usually a small fee, especially if you only have one crate. I would bring along a $50 bill to cover that expense. It shouldn’t be anywhere near that much but if you have it, you don’t have to worry about it.
    5. Getting it home, this is quite often overlooked. So you bought an awesome 1200x800 laser machine… Now what… Don’t plan on putting this thing in the back of your pickup truck and taking it home. You’ll need a trailer, if it’s enclosed make sure to check the shipping crate dimensions and see that it will fit in your trailer. Also be aware of the weight, my 1280 machine weighed right at a half ton with the crate and accessories. My order was a bit larger, and totaled about 200# shy of a full ton. Make sure your tires are inflated, and the trailer and hitch are rated for the weight. Most bumper hitches are only rated for 500# of tongue weight, so if you’re putting 2000# on the trailer there is a good chance you’ll be over that tongue weight. So borrow a vehicle that has a Reese style hitch, or have one installed.

      Great now we have it on the trailer, the nice guy with the forklift put that crate right in there for you… What’s the plan on getting that half ton machine out? If you’re planning on wheeling it down a homemade ramp into the garage, I hope you bought a few spare parts… If your trailer has a ramp that’s great, but remember the machine is bolted down to the steel frame of the crate. It is possible to take one off its crate in the trailer, I’ve done it, it’s not fun. If you want you can rent different types of forklifts, Sunbelt has them, and so do most local equipment rental places. This is by far the safest way of getting it out. You don’t have to rent one, just have a plan and everything should be fine.


    Well I hope this is helpful, I wish I had a single resource I could go to, to find all this info when I bought my first laser. I plan on doing another one of these for what to do with your machine once you get it home. It’ll take me a little time to get around to it. But this is a good place to start.

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    Good write up bpoulin.

    Might add these considerations.

    Be sure and have the manufacturer insure it from the FOB point to unloading at your premise.
    The problem is often gorilla fork truck drivers and they will not say a word if they drop or puncture so look underneath the container as well.

    The other is the air pump that comes with them is generally, well, anemic would be a fair word. The Exhaust system that come with them is marginally better but should be exchanged for higher output models if the factory has that as an option.



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    Default Hello,my friend

    I also think the trust between each other is very important,when you talk to a chinese manufacturer,if he only let you buy the machine, and not to tell you the advantages and disadvantages of the product,then you must care to think.
    Integry Chinese manufacturers wants long-term cooperation with his customs.

    second,the service.from you inquiry to conclude a transaction,a good company will treat you as a frend.nor a custom.

    I wish you a happy co-operation with chinese company.

    http://www.morntech.com/: Laser engraving machine , CNC router


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    Great write up. Why not also post this on sawmillcreek... BIG laser forum. You need to register to post, this will be a very helpful post there too.
    Engravers Forum



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    I'll do that right now Rodney, I am a member there, not an active one, but I am a member.



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    Anyone who is shopping for a laser, or even thinking of shopping for a laser needs to read this.



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    hi sir,
    please help me. I have a 609:x and z inverter radiator fan failure. I changed new fan. now fan is running. but again alarm appears as soon as the machine is started. How to reset this?
    Any ideas as to what might be causing this?



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    Talking Great writing

    Haha,
    Really helpful
    not only for the buying ppls but for our selling ppls!!
    Many thx for you!!

    P.S Synrad laser has a kind of high power lasers i.e Synrad 200W(f200,f201)..but always we go to GSI 200W.

    Again!!!



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    Quote Originally Posted by bpoulin View Post
    Red dot through lens: This utilizes a beam combiner, I have no personal experience with them but others say it will cut down on your laser’s power. Also it provides you with no focus reference, it will always point where the laser is going to fire regardless of how far away the piece is from the proper focus point. Positive points are, it will allow you to align your laser easier, adjust your mirrors until the red dot is in the center of the mirror. No more test firing and cleaning up a charred mess. Also if your red dot beam is dispersed or not striking your work piece you know there is an alignment issue. Personally if I were to buy this option I would also include the standard red dot, that way when both dots are aligned you know you’re at your focus point.
    Sorry, but I must tell you. You talking nonsese.
    Red Dot throught lens is a Standard Red Dot.
    Not chinese 1/2$ diode hanging on the nozzle. This is not Red Dot at all. This is f...g cheat.
    Red Dot MUST go throught the laser`s optical path. Or it is NO Red Dot .

    And there is no Power loss.
    Red Dot optics transparency is about 99.7% so at least you may loose 0.3% of the laser power.
    And there is no autofocus problem. If your autofocus is so stupid you just switch Red Dot off.

    My advice:
    If you want to buy laser machine from technologically advanced company just ask for Red Dot (Pilot Laser). Every reasonable machine has REAL RED DOT.

    Last edited by cinematic2; 11-18-2011 at 07:29 AM.
    CNC lasers, constructions, service


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    The red dot is useless , it is only good for easier alignment if you dont want to actually fire the laser a lot when doing so. All it does whether it goes thru the optic path or not is give a rough approximation of where the beam will start. The exit of the nozzle does the same thing , the red dot is not useful for precision positioning. It does however sometimes give an indication of bad optics , if the red beam is smudged.
    The 1/2 silvered mirror it goes thru does sap power , we cut at about 15% faster without it on my 2 shenui's My GCC's do not use anything in the beam path in regard the the red dot pointer , it uses a prism/mirror arrangement that does NOT interfere with the beam path at all- a much better system than the chinese use , and even then , if the diode fails on em , it really makes no difference to the useability of the machine.
    We have removed Autofocus and red dots from all my 8 lasers , I have 2 shenhuis and 6 Gcc's and we have no issues using em without these "features". The AF probes on all machines are BOUND to hit something at some time and that will either destroy the probe , damage the head assembly or damge or move the engraved piece.
    I don't sell lasers , so don't have to trumpet about how superior my brand is over any one elses , I'm a user and have been using Co2 lasers for 15 years , all I'm doing is giving you the perspective of a power user , not a sales schpiel about what features one machine has over another.



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    Thanks for share, it is really helpful.



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    Key motion control element must be non China (control card, drivers, and steppers/servos)
    Mechanicals can be China
    You will most likely not be able to obtain the Maytag repairman level support



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Tips on buying a laser from China

Tips on buying a laser from China