Advice on controller/drives for Plasma Cutter


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    Default Advice on controller/drives for Plasma Cutter

    Hi guys,
    I am building a Plasma with a 100amp Hypertherm unit with machine torch. I have some limited experience building routers and purpose built automation machines over the years for my shop.

    I have heard HORROR stories about RF interference playing havoc on controllers and PCs.
    I was planning on a plug and play G540 GECKO controller drive unit for the controller. What do I need to do to shield it from the RF noise, and is there a better setup for what I'm trying to do?
    I want to go simple if possible, but I don't want to find out later I have to buy "more better stuff".
    Thanks

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    First off....what is the model of the 100 amp Hypertherm plasma. The units built in the last 15 years or so (Powermax1650 and Powermax105) do not use high frequency for starting. If it is a Max100 or Max100D....they do use high frequency.

    If you are building the machine....proper wiring and grounding as well as cable routing can make most any machine work with high frequency start plasma systems. All of Hypertherm's industrial plasma systems from 130 amps to 800 amps use high frequency start...these systems all are installed on cnc cutting machines.

    To build a machine for use with high frequency start plasma:

    - It is best to use a cnc control that is designed specifically for plasma cutting. Hypertherm produces a few different PC based cnc controls that do not have issues with electrical noise interference...they have I/O filtering and isolation as well as use all properly shielded cables for motor/drive encoder feedback.

    -If you are using a standard office PC or Laptop as the cnc control...ensure that all cables are industrial quality shielded cables (not the standard type cables used for an office machine) and that the computer gets its power through an isolated UPS (uninteruptible Power Supply)

    -A ground rod must be driven within about 6' of the cutting table. All system components (plasma power supply case, electronic drive enclosure, torch carriage, gantry,Plasma work cable, etc) must be connected with correct length (no coiling) cables to this work ground. All of these wires must be of at least 10 gauge with multiple stranding (high frequency travels on the outside of conductors...so multi strands are more efficient at routing this back to the ground rod). This is recommended on any cnc machine, plasma or not.

    -All motor, encoder, computer, drive cables must be routed through separate power tracks from all plasma cables. All of thes cables must be the correct length, no coiling.

    -Plasma power supply should be located as far as possible away from the electronics and computer.

    -All inputs and outputs between the plasma and the electronics should be suppressed with ferrite bead style suppressors.

    Input power for the plasma should come from a separate source as compared to the drive power an the computer power. If the drive and computer source their power from a good industrial, isolated UPS...that is usually adequate.

    These are the actions that usually work to allow either an older technology, high frequency start...or a current technology industrial (high frequency start) plasma to work with a machine that uses entry level electronics or a standard PC or Laptop for control.

    Jim Colt Hypertherm


    Quote Originally Posted by Neuxstone View Post
    Hi guys,
    I am building a Plasma with a 100amp Hypertherm unit with machine torch. I have some limited experience building routers and purpose built automation machines over the years for my shop.

    I have heard HORROR stories about RF interference playing havoc on controllers and PCs.
    I was planning on a plug and play G540 GECKO controller drive unit for the controller. What do I need to do to shield it from the RF noise, and is there a better setup for what I'm trying to do?
    I want to go simple if possible, but I don't want to find out later I have to buy "more better stuff".
    Thanks




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    Thank you Jim. I will print this and insert in the front page of my manual.
    I'm running a 1650 with the new retrofit machine torch.
    So do I need to use the precautions you mention or just make sure everything is grounded and isolated. Also I forgot to note that I'm using 3 amp micro stepping motors with no feedback loop.



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    All machines should be properly earth grounded to a ground rod....this is totally different than the safety electrical ground that connects to your electrical panel. A close earth ground helps to control local voltage spikes and electrical noise that can affect the low voltage signals found in your stepper drives as well as the PC or Laptop.

    The 1650 is not a high frequency start unit.....so it is unlikely you will have major issues....but plasma cutting in general, like many welding processes, can create some electrical noise interference that can affect sensitive electronics.

    Stepper drives are used on most entry level (lower cost) machines based on their cost and simplicity. They work fine for most cutting applications...and there are many thousands of cnc plasma machines using them. Servodrives have some torque / speed advantages, have a feedback loop for positioning accuracy, cost more. You will find servos on 98% of the industrial cnc plasma cutting machines.

    Jim Colt Hypertherm


    Quote Originally Posted by Neuxstone View Post
    Thank you Jim. I will print this and insert in the front page of my manual.
    I'm running a 1650 with the new retrofit machine torch.
    So do I need to use the precautions you mention or just make sure everything is grounded and isolated. Also I forgot to note that I'm using 3 amp micro stepping motors with no feedback loop.




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    I have a question pertaining to that cutter capacity. I originally bought the cutter noting its capacity to cut 1 1/2" steel. I later found that using the machine torch the capacity goes down to recommended 5/8-1/2". Where is the loss of capacity with the machine torch; and can I cut 3/4" (if i go slow) for a tooling job I have coming up?



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    All plasma systems have a maximum capacity rating as well as a severance rating and a production rating. The Powermax1650 is severance rated at 1-1/2", and production rated at 5/8". They also have a maximum pierce rating....which for the 1650 is 5/8" or 3/4" with a full function torch height control.

    The ratings for hand torch and machine torch are identical. When cutting in a mechanized fashion (using either a machine torch or hand torch mounted perpendicular to the plate)...you most always must pierce the plate....so by using the specs I list above...you can pierce 5/8" with a fixed height...or 3/4" with an automatic height control (sets pierce height and cut height automatically).

    If you can edge start (again with either a machine or hand torch)...you can do material thicknesses up to the severance rating.....in actuallity I know many people that have done 2" or more with the 1650...again, it does not matter which torch, they cut the same.

    Hypertherm's system brochures and the operators manuals are very clear about the differences in machine and hand cutting capability, although many ask why the hand torch can cut thicker than the machine torch! Hopefully this explains the reasons.

    Can you pierce thicker than the Hypertherm pierce ratings? Yes....but expect the molten metal blowback to shorten the life of the torch shield and nozzle.

    Jim Colt Hypertherm



    Quote Originally Posted by Neuxstone View Post
    I have a question pertaining to that cutter capacity. I originally bought the cutter noting its capacity to cut 1 1/2" steel. I later found that using the machine torch the capacity goes down to recommended 5/8-1/2". Where does the loss of capacity with the machine torch; and can I cut 3/4" (if i go slow) for a tooling job I have coming up?




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    Is the torch height control hardware, software or both?
    I will be using Mach3 for control software. Is there a better CAM software with height control for the "capitally challenged" guy like myself?
    I chose the build this machine because the cost of putting this together was near equal to the quotes I was receiving for this one tooling job alone. Then I started thinking of all the other product I could make if I had a plasma set up in the shop. I've built some relatively sophisticated machinery and understand the value of doing it right...
    Anytime you choose to go off the grid you can email me privately neuxstone@aol.



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    There are a bunch of different choices for height control....software driven (integrated height controls) and standalone (work with any plasma /cutting machine. For the best education on machine components...I suggest looking at the offerings on these sites:

    www.candcnc.com Precision Plasma LLC



    Quote Originally Posted by Neuxstone View Post
    Is the torch height control hardware, software or both?
    I will be using Mach3 for control software. Is there a better CAM software with height control for the "capitally challenged" guy like myself?
    I chose the build this machine because the cost of putting this together was near equal to the quotes I was receiving for this one tooling job alone. Then I started thinking of all the other product I could make if I had a plasma set up in the shop. I've built some relatively sophisticated machinery and understand the value of doing it right...
    Anytime you choose to go off the grid you can email me privately neuxstone@aol.




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    Thanks Jim. I found a paper you wrote and thought if anyone else is following this thread I would mention to check out this link. "http://www.fabricatingandmetalworking.com/2010/12/torch-height-control-for-automated-plasma-cutting-applications-2/
    It thoroughly explains the process with illustrations.
    After a months long search for the best overall plasma cutter for my purpose I feel great about my choice in purchasing the Hypertherm.



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    Jim.
    I went on the Dragon Cut site and they have the digital THC board that is specific to the Hypertherm. I feel more secure using my own hardware so I don't plan using their plug and play module as of yet.
    Does my 1650 have the required RS485 connector? I'm assuming this is the interface plug already built in, but I don't have a manual as of yet to properly identify it.
    Dave



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    Quote Originally Posted by Neuxstone View Post
    Jim.
    I went on the Dragon Cut site and they have the digital THC board that is specific to the Hypertherm. I feel more secure using my own hardware so I don't plan using their plug and play module as of yet.

    Does my 1650 have the required RS485 connector? I'm assuming this is the interface plug already built in, but I don't have a manual as of yet to properly identify it.
    Dave
    The 1650 does NOT have an RS485. The plug is a CPC connector on the back that lets you access Start (torch on) and Transfer (Arc OK). Two fo the three basic signals you need for CNC plasma. You will have to access the Raw arc volts inside on J15 and J16 and divide it down for use by the THC circuit. The 1650 does not have the internal divider like the 45/65/85/1-5 Of course you need something to plug all of this into (Torch Height Control). While o fire the torch and do the Arc OK sensing is just inputs and outputs you need more electronics to do actual THC (track the metal as you cut).

    Our DTHCII and THC SENSOR PWM is not specific to any plasma or model. What makes it so are the connection kits. The connection kit foe the 1650 is a cable and our RAV-01 Voltage divider/filter card.

    The RS485 to do the total control (including Cut Current and Airr pressure ) only has become available recently with the introduction of the 65/85/105 machines and their options RS485 port. You don't need this option to be CNC plasma cutting BUT if you ever have it you won't want to do without it!

    TOMcaudle
    www.CandCNC.com



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    Quote Originally Posted by Neuxstone View Post
    Jim.
    I went on the Dragon Cut site and they have the digital THC board that is specific to the Hypertherm. I feel more secure using my own hardware so I don't plan using their plug and play module as of yet.
    Does my 1650 have the required RS485 connector? I'm assuming this is the interface plug already built in, but I don't have a manual as of yet to properly identify it.
    Dave
    I would use Candcnc hardware. Amazing stuff and works perfect.



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    Default Re: Advice on controller/drives for Plasma Cutter

    It's been awhile and I've been thru a arduous shop relocatin since but I thought I'd post this if it helps anyone out there...
    I ended up with a Dragon Control after doing my homework on the background of the company and history of the brand CANDCNC.
    The first machine was hooked up as per their great instruction, printed out and used as a guide thru the build.
    The help forum was answered promptly and I was guided thru any difficulty.
    My machine (hooked to a Hypertherm 1650 with machine torch and it would cutout for exactly one second sporadically but we couldn't correct it until I upgraded to the Linux system they now offered.
    What a difference in both performance and cut quality! It ended up being a windows issue.
    I'm very pleased and after over a year of great performance I would recommend this system to hobbiist or production shop alike.
    There was a ATHC antidive upgrade since which was available with a control circuit but I opted not to install it as I was in the middle of a huge job and couldn't risk the machine going down.



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Advice on controller/drives for Plasma Cutter

Advice on controller/drives for Plasma Cutter